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sfa, probably the greatest mistake the Vatican made since WWII, and maybe since Vatican I, was Humanae Vitae. The Laos tou Theou have resoundingly rejected it, yet it continues to be taught as dogma. In the pre Schism Church, that rejection would have meant the end of any pretense that Humanae Vitae taught true dogma. The wisdom of that ecclesiology and praxis is demonstrated by the almost complete loss of credibility the Magisterium has suffered since the 1960s. The people simply don’t buy it, sfa and sadly, that has lead to a disregard of almost all the teachings of the Western Church.

You should know that in Orthodoxy, matters of family planning by non abortifacient contraception are left to the couple in prayerful consultation with their spiritual father. In this manner the decision to use or not use contraception is informed by The Faith. I’ll bet there isn’t one Orthodox Christian in a million who disagrees with that, preferring rather the Latin prohibition.

Humanae Vitae was ill considered. It was a bad choice and the ramifications of that bad choice are, sadly, plain to see.

You should know that in Orthodoxy, matters of family planning by non abortifacient contraception are left to the couple .

I disagree with the Orthodox on this because contraception is man's decision not to TRUST God through prayer alone.

In order for contraception to exist it must be offered to the secular world to allow mankind to promote promiscuous sex outside of marriage.

sfa, probably the greatest mistake the Vatican made since WWII, and maybe since Vatican I, was Humanae Vitae. The Laos tou Theou have resoundingly rejected it, yet it continues to be taught as dogma

It was reaffirming doctrine taught by EVERY Christian denomination since the beginning, K.

EVERY single one. The first departure from this continuous witness was the Anglican Lambeth conference of 1930. At that time, other Protestant bodies condemned it, and even Mahatma Gandhi, a Hindu, condemned it. Pope Pius XI condemned in the harshest possible terms.

Martin Luther condemned contraception roundly.

St. Paul, in several places, condemns something he calls pharmakeia. (The usual English translation is "sorcery".) Look it up: pharmakeia in his day involved the mixing of potions. One of the most frequent applications of those potions was contraception. (Abortion was another one.)

You should know that in Orthodoxy, matters of family planning by non abortifacient contraception are left to the couple in prayerful consultation with their spiritual father

Innovation, pure and simple.

Humanae Vitae was ill considered. It was a bad choice and the ramifications of that bad choice are, sadly, plain to see.

Humanae Vitae did not cause a 50% divorce rate, rampant promiscuity, and 1.5 million deaths due to abortion every year just in this country.

I have never disagreed with anything you've said as much as I disagree with this post, K. You are not defending the faith of the Fathers, nor the faith of the ancient church. You are defending a modern innovation and a derogation from the true Christian doctrine concerning sex.

"Since, therefore, openly departing from the uninterrupted Christian tradition some recently have judged it possible solemnly to declare another doctrine regarding this question, the Catholic Church, to whom God has entrusted the defense of the integrity and purity of morals, standing erect in the midst of the moral ruin which surrounds her, in order that she may preserve the chastity of the nuptial union from being defiled by this foul stain, raises her voice in token of her divine ambassadorship and through Our mouth proclaims anew: any use whatsoever of matrimony exercised in such a way that the act is deliberately frustrated in its natural power to generate life is an offense against the law of God and of nature, and those who indulge in such are branded with the guilt of a grave sin." -- Casti Connubii, Pope Pius XI, December 31, 1930

Church Fathers on contraception. Pay particular attention to the words of our father among the saints, John Chrysostom, Patriarch of Constantinople.

If the magisterium has lost credibility, it was because the people bought into a lie, which is that reproduction is an evil that threatens the world. That women must be free as men are free, and to be free of men. Forty years agoJudge John Noonan wrote a good study that examined the history of the church and contraception, call, Contraception His conclusion was that the Church's attitude had been ambiguous, or at least uncertain at times. But it was not long until he realized that the acceptance of contraception led to the acceptance of abortion, simply because its legalization is necessary if women are to have the perfect security, the final choice if contraception failed, as failk it often did. The Endlosung, as it were. Humanae Vitae predicted what has happend during the last 40 years, predicted the necessary consequence of our adoption of this worldview, and acceptance of the dogma that sex and reproduction ought to have nothing to do with one another. The easy availability of contractive methods, of the "safe" procedures for abortion, have simply overwhelmed what you prescribe as a viable method. We can control our appetitites only where there is scarcity, and there is no scarcity.