Posted on 05/02/2009 9:29:20 AM PDT by Terriergal
Had you read and understood my previous replies, you’d understand that I do not.
Exactly, that is why I pointed out Rick Warren. Unless, you can site scripture to the opposite (and there is none) I think his hypocrisy is pretty clear. But, there will always be those that cannot read clear verses of scripture and will say that does not mean what it says. If you accept that those type(scripture twisters) of people can have Christian churches, then of course we should have gay marriage, abortion and euthanasia as well as a host of other liberal stuff and call it Christian. Afterall, no one can judge. Right.?
I initially thought you’d made a mistake which was why I gave you a smiley. Then I realized you might actually be serious. So, you’re a Calvinist - just an assumption - as they used to tell us we weren’t Christian when we were growing up - they also told us we were the spawns of satan, and whores of Babylon, blah, blah, blah. lol
Regulator, seriously have you never wondered where the word Catholic comes from, and what it means? Why don’t you “interview” the very first Christians and see what they thought of the Church and the word Catholic? I suggest you start with our second bishop after St Peter - Ignatius of Antioch - as he was the first Christian to use it. (It was actually in Antioch, where the believers in Christ were first called Christians (cf. Acts 11:26).)
Ignatius wrote while on his way to Rome to be martyred -
“You must all follow the bishop as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 8).
Then interview Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, who used the word many times. Polycarp was a disciple of the apostle John just as John was a disciple of Jesus. Like Ignatius, Polycarp suffered the martyr’s death in a coliseum in A.D. 155. In the Martyrdom of Polycarp, written at the time of Polycarp’s death - one example -
“The Church of God that sojourns in Smyrna, to the Church of God that sojourns in Philomelium, and to all the dioceses of the holy and Catholic Church in every place” (Epistle of the Church at Smyrna, preface).
Augustine in the fourth century, relying on Tradition of the early Church, is very clear in his terminology -
“We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic, and is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies” (The True Religion 7, 12).
And again, “The very name of Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house” (Against the Letter of Mani called “The Foundation” 4, 5).
Like Augustine, and those before, we continue the unbroken Tradition.
The early usage and importance of the word is said to this day at Mass - in the Apostle’s Creed and the Nicene Creeds. If you were a Christian in the first millennium, you were a Catholic, and if you were a Catholic you recited the Creeds affirming the “one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.”
Lots more...just do some reading because after that there’s still the Biblical understanding of the word Catholic to come - with 2,000 years of history it’s difficult for anyone to reinvent the wheel.
You have an issue with reading comprehension, chase19. Review your questions of me, and then my answers, and get back to me.
You don’t believe Catholics are Christians, right? Now read what I wrote and rebutt otherwise one might believe you’re evading the real issue.
Wrong.
“If you accept that those type(scripture twisters) of people can have Christian churches, then of course we should have gay marriage, abortion and euthanasia as well as a host of other liberal stuff and call it Christian. Afterall, no one can judge. Right.”
Not sure I understand your twisted logic. You can call anything Christian but it doesn’t make it so. But equating modern religious music to gay marriage is quite a stretch and shows a complete lack of understanding.
Just because something is old doesn’t mean its of God. And just because something is new doesn’t make it of God.
The present situation in churches is new. It started back in the 60s if not earlier.
“Don’t you mean you (or your pastor’s) interpretation of God’s word? I for one am glad I belong to the Church that teaches with authority and I don’t have to worry about interpreting God’s word for myself.”
Funny how Catholics love to attack protestants on these threads but always cry foul when someone points out the problems with Catholics.
Believe what you want to believe, its obvious your heart is hard to any thing not of the gilded idol worshiping book.
I was pointing out the Rick Warren instance. I know he uses modern music and jean clad men with guitars. Modern music is fine but it will not in the Rick Warren instance make his stand now in favor of gay marriage more palatable or more Christian. I never said anything about modern music except in this instance where his hypocrisy overshadows all the men in jeans guitar players. There are probably men like Rick Warren that can carry through a train of thought. They can have all the praise music and guitars they want if they have their doctrine straight.
Is Richard Land really this shallow? Is Land so unstudied as to Obama’s plans for the division and destruction of families in the United States? Obama wants my young people OUT of my home and in HIS civilian service scheme. This is family values? Not hardly.
Land is using what he seees in photo ops of the Obama family (with the almost always pathetically dressed Mrs.) to determine the character of the “president” and to determine that he has family values.
What a misguided leader the SBC has in Land.
“All the apostles were Catholic. Catholics are the Original Christians.”
This is probably why the word “Catholic” appears so many times in the Apostles own books. /sarc
Catholic Church be the last one standing for moral values????
Am I wrong? 60% of Catholic say the “O” is doing a great job?
Turn to the Bible, and turn to prayer ... not man. That’s the answer.
Finally some-one gets it right !
BTTT !!!
And it’s such an obvious thing, too. Fellowship is wonderful, unless you’re being led astray. Only one way to know that.
“This is probably why the word “Catholic” appears so many times in the Apostles own books”
Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?
Do you believe in the Holy Trinity?
The same can not be done for the Roman church’s concept of “Catholic.”
Mr. Land has had too many trips to DC. Those trips will do that to you. I really don’t believe Mr. Land has much praise for Obama but this a part of some tactic to get a meeting or dialogue with Obama.
I think it is a bad strategy because this President will go down in history as the most anti-God President in the history of this country. It does us absolutely no good to open a dialogue with this guy when he is doing the policies he is doing.
‘They can have all the praise music and guitars they want if they have their doctrine straight.”
Pretty much holds true for any preacher, right? So why did you lump modern churches, which are growing, with old fashioned churches, which are dying?
Modern churches are fine. How that? I just have a beef with Rick Warren.
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