Posted on 05/05/2009 10:25:50 AM PDT by Colofornian
Isn’t that nice. It has been shown on these threads before.
It is also nice that not a single mainstreamer has been able to produce an actual record of conviction. No conviction means that there was not a crime.
In other words, smears are smears and they appear to be all this is.
He flip flopped worse than John Kerry?
“It was charged that Joseph Smith was accused and found guilt of parting a local farmer from his money in a less than honest scheme, commonly known as ‘money-digging’ or ‘glass-looking.’ It was reported to have been an activity that brought him rebuke from his soon-to-be father-in-law, Isaac Hale. It is also historically recorded that he was removed from membership in a local Methodist church because of the activity and trial results.
“Joseph Smith skims over the specific event leading to the trial in the Pearl of Great Price, explaining that he was only a day worker for the man so engaged and not personally involved.
“Mormon writers have continually challenged its doubters to find the records (seemingly lost) and prove Joseph Smith a liar or stop the attacks. Mormon writer Hugh Nibley, the most prolific defender of the Mormon faith, used almost 20 pages in his book, The Mythmakers, in an attempt to discredit this ‘alleged’ court trial. On page 142 we find:
“’. . . If this court record is authentic it is the most damning evidence in existence against Joseph Smith’ and would be ‘the most devastating blow to Smith ever delivered.’ [emphasis added]
“Of course, when that was first published back in 1961, Dr. Nibley undoubtedly felt that after 130 years no such record would turn up in 1971. Once again, the actual evidence, which the Mormon Church had denied ever existed came to light in 1971. You can read about how it was discovered as well as the relevance of other historical documents of that time that Joseph used a ‘seer’ stone to find money, etc. in the 54=page brochure ‘Joseph Smith’s Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials.’
“One might wonder why this should be cause for concern among investigators of Mormonism. The fact is the up to then, the Mormon Leaders had denied that there WAS such a trial. Indeed, they claim that the story of Joseph’s arrest was a ‘fabrication of unknown authorship and never in a court record at all.’
“The charge that Joseph was known to hunt treasure with ‘peep’ or ‘seer’ stones, etc., was serious enough that Mormon scholar Francis W. Kirkham stated that if the court record could be found, it would show that the Mormon Church was false:
“’Careful study of all facts regarding this alleged confession of Joseph Smith in a court of law that he had used a seer stone to find hidden treasure for purposes of fraud, must come to the conclusion that no such record was ever made, and therefore, is not in existence . . .
“’If any evidence had been in existence that Joseph Smith had used a seer stone for fraud and deception, and especially had he made this confession in a court of law as early as 1826, or four years before the Book of Mormon was printed, and this confession was in a court record, it would have been impossible for him to have organized the restored Church.’
(Derick S. Hartshorn, Bearing the Testimony of Truth, Guilty! Next Case!,)
It is also nice that not a single mormon has been able to produce an actual record of visions. No visions means that there was not a restoration.
“Later, in the same book, Mr. Kirkham (Mormon scholar Francis W. Kirkham) states:
“’. . . [I]f a court record could be identified, and if it contained a confession by Joseph Smith which revealed him to be a poor, ignorant, deluded, and superstitious person unable himself to write a book of any consequence, and whose Church could not endure because it attracted only similar persons of low mentality if such a court record confession could be identified and proved, then it follows that his believers must deny his claimed divine guidance which led them to follow him. . . . How could he be a prophet of God, the leader of the Restored Church to these tens of thousands, if he had been superstitious fraud which the pages from a book declared he confessed to be? . . . ‘
“Well, in spite of 140 years of silence, the records did surface. Rev. Wesley Walters discovered the documents in the basement of the Chenango County, New York, jailhouse at Norwich, N.Y. in 1971. The records, affidavits, and other data show conclusively that Joseph Smith was arrested, went to trial, was found guilty as an imposter in the Stowell matter of “glass-looking.” It is not a matter of debate, opinion or religious preference. It is a proven historical fact.
“Initially Mormons denied that Joseph ever participated in ‘money-digging’ activities, saying that would invalidate his claim as a prophet. Now that indisputable evidence confirms that Joseph was a convicted ‘money- digger’ Mormons have taken a ‘so what’ attitude. At least one says, now that the evidence proves that Joseph was a ‘money-digger’ that it really doesn’t matter. (What could a BYU professor say?) Mormon scholar Marvin Hill says:
“’There may be little doubt now, as I have indicated elsewhere, that Joseph Smith was brought to trial in 1826 on a charge, not exactly clear, associated with money digging.’ [Fawn] Brodie’s thesis that the prophet grew from necromancer to prophet assumes that the two were mutually exclusive, that if Smith were a money-digger he could not have been religiously sincere.
‘This does not necessarily follow. Many believers active in their churches, were money-diggers in New England and western New York in this period. Few contemporaries regard these money-diggers as irreligious, only implying so if their religious views seemed too radical . . . For the historian interested in Joseph Smith the man, it does not seem incongruous for him to have hunted for treasure with a seer stone and then to use with full faith to receive revelations from the Lord.’
“Marvin Hill’s appraisal of the treasure seeking activities make it appear that contemporaries of Joseph Smith treated this enterprise with a casual air. One such contemporary that was closer to Joseph than most, could hardly disguise his disdain. This was Isaac Hale, father of the girl that Joseph would later elope with. In an affidavit signed by Hale and published in the Susquehanna Register, May 1, 1834, Joseph’s father-in-law said:
“’I first became acquainted with Joseph Smith, Jr. in November, 1825. He was at that time in the employ of a set of men who were called ‘money diggers’; and his occupation was that of seeing, or pretending to see by what means of a stone placed in his hat, and his hat closed over his face. In this way he pretended to discover minerals and hidden treasure.
“’Smith and his father, with several other money-diggers boarded at my house while they were employed in digging for a mine that they supposed had been opened and worked by the Spaniards. Young Smith made several visits at my house, and at length asked my consent to his marrying my daughter Emma. This I refused . . . [H]e was a stranger, and followed a business that I could not approve. . . . Smith stated to me, that he had given up what he called “glass-looking,” and that he expected to work hard for a living . . .
“’Soon after this, I was informed that they had brought a wonderful book of plates down with them . . . The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret, was the same as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, and his hat over his face, while the Book of Plates were at the same time hid in the woods.’”
(Derick S. Hartshorn, Bearing the Testimony of Truth, Guilty! Next Case!,)
Oh, there were the Visions. There were no convictions either.
There were lots of Mormons murdered by Protestants.
Smith was a known "necromancer"...
...who then injected necro-baptism around 1839-1840 into the LDS church...
...for the supposed purposes of necro-salvation...
...LDS "prophets" who descended from the broader Smith family -- like Joseph F. Smith -- had a dream about the dead that was much later made into an added D&C "revelation" from God -- Foreshadowing the great work to be done in the temples of the Lord in the dispensation of the fulness of times, for the redemption of the dead...For the dead had looked upon the long absence of their spirits from their bodies as a bondage. (D&C 138:48,50)
...do I detect a "necro" pattern here?
(No wonder Michael Quinn, an ex-BYU prof of history, wrote a book about the early OCCULTIC Mormon worldview when he was still @ BYU! LDS isn't just cultic, but occultic!)
There were lots of Mormons murdered by Protestants
__________________________________________
God would have had them stoned...
Parley Pratt stole another man’s wife and committed adultry with her...
God’s penalty for that sin of breaking His Commandment...
Death by stoning...
Parley got his...
God had revenge ...
Goodness. Would you clarify that statement? One could infer from the tone that it is a desirable end for all the Mormons to be murdered.
A more desirable end would be for all people to Acknowledge the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
That’s a good point too .... the whole concept of Mormonism is a fallacy ... a counterfeit Christian religion ...
And why did JS Jr.’s family go to Independence MO to set up the Reformed Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints? It was Brigham Young who’s church is now in Salt Lake City ... wouldn’t it be correct for all Mormons to follow JS Jr’s family church in Independence MO?
One could infer from the tone that it is a desirable end for all the Mormons to be murdered.
____________________________________________-
I guess you mean when BY said it...
As soon as the news of the murder of Squire Babbett and party reached Salt Lake, the impression grew strong in the minds of the people, that it had been done by the instruction of the Church; as Babbett was very troublesome, was feared, had often been threatened, was a “covenant-breaker,” and, consequently, by Mormon law, ought to die. The desire prompted the suspicion, and the more closely that the circumstances were scrutinized, the stronger these suspicions became.
Some weak-minded people, however, did not approve of such bloody measures, and Brigham, to effectually quiet their scruples, preached this strange doctrine on Sabbath afternoon, September 21; 1856:
“There are sins that men commit for which they can not receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world. “I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them. I willisay further; I have had men come to me and offer their lives t~ atone for their sins. “It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by man, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit. As it was in ancient days, so it is in our day; and though the principles are taught publicly from this stand, still the people do not understand them; yet the law is precisely the same. There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, of a calf, or of turtle doves, can not remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man. That is the reason why men talk to you as they do from this stand; they understand the doctrine, and throw out a few words about it.” (Deseret News, October 1, 1856.)
Perhaps in quoting newspapers for doctrine, the New York Times would be more suited to the purposes espoused. Or the news service Al Jaseera.
Oh my, you mean that those most closely associated with the prophet rejected Young? /sarc They at least recognized the book of abraham as being spurious.
It’s always been my rebuttal - why did his family go to Independence MO?
ROTFLAICGU
Deseret News = Al Jaseera
Ah, comes now the peanut gallery!
Welcome!
What was the date of Joseph Smith’s first vision - the one in the woods?
What was the date?
I am waiting.
Look it up. I am neither a history teacher nor your personal encyclopedia.
It is not cute to send Freepmail with the exact same demand.
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