Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Joseph Smith Tries to Join the Methodists
The Berean Call ^ | May 4, 2009 | Wesley P. Walters

Posted on 05/05/2009 10:25:50 AM PDT by Colofornian

In June 1828 Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of Mormonism, joined the Methodist Church [probationary class] in Harmony, Pennsylvania. This was a strange thing for this prophet of a new religion to do, and seriously challenges the story he put out ten years later about the origin of his work.

That later story claims that in 1820 Joseph Smith had seen two glorious personages, identified as the Father and the Son, and was informed that the creeds of all the “sects,” or various denominations, “were an abomination” and he was twice forbidden to join any of them.

In retelling this same tale to Alexander Neibaur on May 24, 1844, Joseph specifically singled out the Methodist Church as being unworthy of his membership. Mr. Neibaur’s diary recorded the divine warning as related by Joseph: “Mr. Smith then asked must I join the Methodist Church - No - they are not my People. They have gone astray there is none that doeth good no not one.” (quoted in The Improvement Era, April 1970, p.12).

Perhaps the death of his first-born son on June 15, 1828 induced him to seek membership in the church his wife had belonged to since she was seven years old. Joseph had told his neighbor, Joshua McKune, that “his (Smith’s) first born child was to translate the characters and hieroglyphics upon the plates, into our language, at the age of three years.” (The Susquehanna Register, May 1, 1834, p.1). When this child died at birth instead, and his wife’s life also hung in danger, Smith may have considered entirely abandoning his project of writing a book and decided to join the Methodist Church. At least Martin Harris later told Rev. Ezra Booth that when he went to Pennsylvania to see Joseph about the translation that “Joseph had given it up on account of the opposition of his wife and others,” and Martin “told Joseph, ‘I have not come down here for nothing, we will go on with it.’ ” (The Story of the Mormons, by William Alexander Linn, New York: Macmillan Co. 1902, p.36).

The young prophet’s roll as a Methodist member did not last very long, however - only three days according to statements made by his wife’s cousins, Joseph and Hiel Lewis. In their local newspaper at Amboy, Illinois they told of their earlier years with Joseph Smith in Pennsylvania and of his uniting with their Methodist class:

He presented himself in a very serious and humble manner, and the minister, not suspecting evil, put his name on the class book, in the absence of some of the official members. (The Amboy Journal, Amboy, Illinois, April 30, 1879, p.1).

Like so many of the early Methodist records, the early class books of the Harmony (now Lanesboro) Church are lost, so we will never know for certain whether Joseph Smith remained a member for only three days or six months. However, there was never any dispute that he had become a member, and by this one act he undercut the story he later put forth that God in a special vision had instructed him specifically not to join the Methodist Church.


TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Mainline Protestant; Other Christian
KEYWORDS: antimormonthread; lds; methodist; mormon; smith
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-59 next last
Note: This was originally published under the title "The Mormon Prophet Attempts to Join the Methodists" at: TheMormonProphetAttemptsToJoinTheMethodists
1 posted on 05/05/2009 10:25:50 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...

Ping


2 posted on 05/05/2009 10:29:20 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama....never saw a Bush molehill he couldn't make a mountain out of.......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

If the BOM was ‘written’ in 1826 why would JS jr want to join the Methodists ....


3 posted on 05/05/2009 10:33:38 AM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer

Hum...


4 posted on 05/05/2009 10:36:36 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Mitt Romney is a more subtle version of Arlen Specter with better hair...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer
If the BOM was ‘written’ in 1826 why would JS jr want to join the Methodists...

The BOM was published in 1830 -- AFTER he joined the Methodists. It wasn't written in 1826. Also, his so-called "first vision" where he LATER recounts that two personages told him not to join in any Christian sects because "they were all wrong" supposedly occurred between the ages of 14 and 16 -- depending upon which version of his vision you read.

That would mean that he was told not to join any other church between 1820-1822...and by 1828, he joined the Methodist church.

This whole thing is kind of ironic: Mormons claim they can do genealogical research on dead Methodists, have stand-in volunteers for necro-baptisms on their behalf, and get them to convert to Mormonism in the after-life.

Here, Wesley Walters did research on the deceased Mormon Joseph Smith, didn't need a stand-in volunteer or proxy for Joseph Smith to attend Methodist membership classes -- Joseph appeared himself, but it's only been after Smith has been in the afterlife (some would say afterdeath) that we find out Smith converted to Methodism, after all...before converting back.

The mass accuser of all Christian sects being "apostates" was an "apostate" to his own vision before he even started his church from scratch!

5 posted on 05/05/2009 10:41:04 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
the story he later put forth that God in a special vision had instructed him specifically not to join the Methodist Church.

I hadn't seen this before...

Here is the official version (or one of them) of the "First Vision".

History of the Church, Vol. 1, Chapters 1-5

EXTRACTS FROM THE HISTORY OF JOSEPH SMITH, THE PROPHET
History of the Church, Vol. 1, Chapters 1-5
Joseph Smith tells of his ancestry, family members, and their early abodes—An unusual excitement about religion prevails in western New York—He determines to seek wisdom as directed by James—The Father and the Son appear and Joseph is called to his prophetic ministry. (Verses 1-20.)
  1 Owing to the many reports which have been put in circulation by evil-disposed and designing persons, in relation to the rise and progress of the Church of Jesus Christ of aLatter-day Saints, all of which have been designed by the authors thereof to militate against its character as a Church and its progress in the world—I have been induced to write this history, to disabuse the public mind, and put all inquirers after truth in possession of the bfacts, as they have transpired, in relation both to myself and the Church, so far as I have such facts in my possession.
  2 In this history I shall present the various events in relation to this Church, in truth and righteousness, as they have transpired, or as they at present exist, being now [1838] the aeighth byear since the organization of the said Church.
  3 aI was born in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and five, on the twenty-third day of December, in the town of Sharon, Windsor county, State of Vermont . . . My father, bJoseph Smith, Sen., left the State of Vermont, and moved to Palmyra, Ontario (now Wayne) county, in the State of New York, when I was in my tenth year, or thereabouts. In about four years after my father’s arrival in Palmyra, he moved with his family into Manchester in the same county of Ontario—
  4 His family consisting of eleven souls, namely, my father, Joseph Smith; my amother, Lucy Smith (whose name, previous to her marriage, was Mack, daughter of Solomon Mack); my brothers, bAlvin (who died November 19th, 1823, in the 26th year of his age), cHyrum, myself, dSamuel Harrison, William, Don Carlos; and my sisters, Sophronia, Catherine, and Lucy.
  5 Some time in the second year after our removal to Manchester, there was in the place where we lived an unusual excitement on the subject of religion. It commenced with the Methodists, but soon became general among all the sects in that region of country. Indeed, the whole district of country seemed affected by it, and great multitudes united themselves to the different religious parties, which created no small stir and division amongst the people, some crying, “aLo, here!” and others, “Lo, there!” Some were contending for the Methodist faith, some for the Presbyterian, and some for the Baptist.
  6 For, notwithstanding the great alove which the converts to these different faiths expressed at the time of their conversion, and the great zeal manifested by the respective clergy, who were active in getting up and promoting this extraordinary scene of religious feeling, in order to have everybody converted, as they were pleased to call it, let them join what sect they pleased; yet when the converts began to file off, some to one party and some to another, it was seen that the seemingly good feelings of both the priests and the converts were more bpretended than real; for a scene of great confusion and bad feeling ensued—priest contending against priest, and convert against convert; so that all their good feelings one for another, if they ever had any, were entirely lost in a strife of words and a contest about opinions.
  7 I was at this time in my fifteenth year. My father’s family was proselyted to the Presbyterian faith, and four of them joined that church, namely, my mother, Lucy; my brothers Hyrum and Samuel Harrison; and my sister Sophronia.
  8 During this time of great excitement my mind was called up to serious reflection and great uneasiness; but though my feelings were deep and often poignant, still I kept myself aloof from all these parties, though I attended their several meetings as often as occasion would permit. In process of time my mind became somewhat partial to the Methodist sect, and I felt some desire to be united with them; but so great were the confusion and astrife among the different denominations, that it was impossible for a person young as I was, and so unacquainted with men and things, to come to any certain conclusion who was bright and who was wrong.
  9 My mind at times was greatly excited, the cry and tumult were so great and incessant. The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.
  10 In the midst of this war of words and tumult of opinions, I often said to myself: What is to be done? Who of all these parties are right; or, are they all wrong together? If any one of them be aright, which is it, and how shall I know it?
  11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of aJames, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack bwisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
  12 Never did any passage of ascripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed bwisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects cunderstood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.
  13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in adarkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to “ask of God,” concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would bgive liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.
  14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the awoods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a bbeautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to cpray dvocally.
  15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was aseized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick bdarkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
  16 But, exerting all my powers to acall upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into bdespair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of clight exactly over my head, above the brightness of the dsun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself adelivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I bsaw two cPersonages, whose brightness and dglory defy all description, estanding above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My fBeloved gSon. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to ainquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all awrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those bprofessors were all ccorrupt; that: “they ddraw near to me with their lips, but their ehearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the fcommandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the gpower thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself alying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, bmother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.” It seems as though the cadversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the dopposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?
Some preachers and other professors of religion reject account of First Vision—Persecution heaped upon Joseph Smith—He testifies of the reality of the vision. (Verses 21-26.)
  21 Some few days after I had this vision, I happened to be in company with one of the Methodist preachers, who was very active in the before mentioned religious excitement; and, conversing with him on the subject of religion, I took occasion to give him an account of the vision which I had had. I was greatly surprised at his behavior; he treated my communication not only lightly, but with great contempt, saying it was all of the devil, that there were no such things as avisions or brevelations in these days; that all such things had ceased with the apostles, and that there would never be any more of them.
  22 I soon found, however, that my telling the story had excited a great deal of prejudice against me among professors of religion, and was the cause of great apersecution, which continued to increase; and though I was an bobscure boy, only between fourteen and fifteen years of age, and my circumstances in life such as to make a boy of no consequence in the world, yet men of high standing would take notice sufficient to excite the public mind against me, and create a bitter persecution; and this was common among all the sects—all united to persecute me.
  23 It caused me serious reflection then, and often has since, how very strange it was that an obscure aboy, of a little over fourteen years of age, and one, too, who was doomed to the necessity of obtaining a scanty maintenance by his daily blabor, should be thought a character of sufficient importance to attract the attention of the great ones of the most popular sects of the day, and in a manner to create in them a spirit of the most bitter cpersecution and dreviling. But strange or not, so it was, and it was often the cause of great sorrow to myself.
  24 However, it was nevertheless a fact that I had beheld a avision. I have thought since, that I felt much like Paul, when he made his defense before King Agrippa, and related the account of the vision he had when he saw a light, and heard a voice; but still there were but few who believed him; some said he was dishonest, others said he was bmad; and he was ridiculed and reviled. But all this did not destroy the reality of his vision. He had seen a vision, he knew he had, and all the cpersecution under heaven could not make it otherwise; and though they should persecute him unto death, yet he knew, and would know to his latest breath, that he had both seen a light and heard a voice speaking unto him, and all the world could not make him think or believe otherwise.
  25 So it was with me. I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two aPersonages, and they did in reality speak to me; and though I was bhated and cpersecuted for saying that I had seen a vision, yet it was true; and while they were persecuting me, reviling me, and speaking all manner of evil against me dfalsely for so saying, I was led to say in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God, or why does the world think to make me deny what I have actually seen? For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not edeny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.
  26 I had now got my mind satisfied so far as the sectarian world was concerned—that it was not my duty to join with any of them, but to continue as I was until further adirected. I had found the testimony of James to be true—that a man who lacked wisdom might ask of God, and obtain, and not be bupbraided.

6 posted on 05/05/2009 10:42:26 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Obama....never saw a Bush molehill he couldn't make a mountain out of.......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

7 posted on 05/05/2009 10:44:32 AM PDT by chuck_the_tv_out (click my name)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chuck_the_tv_out

“This is what Mormons actually believe.”


8 posted on 05/05/2009 10:45:30 AM PDT by dfwgator (1996 2006 2008 - Good Things Come in Threes)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
All from an Angel called MORON-I..

Joseph Smith might have been a comedian..
But many took him seriously..

9 posted on 05/05/2009 11:04:37 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hosepipe
All from an Angel called MORON-I..Joseph Smith might have been a comedian..But many took him seriously..

As even his mother said, at about the age of 17, Smith was a tall teller...Later, still in his 20s, he liked to give himself secret code names that he pretended were names God gave him -- like Baurak Ale [sounds like a good beer brand for these days, eh?] (Doctrine & Covenants 103:35) and Gazelam (D&C 104:26)...and he would do the same for people he was sending everywhere as missionaries.

At times, you could see where the demons seemed to have the last laugh...times like where Joseph gave one of the Mormon servants (John Johnson) a "special name" of "Zombre" (D&C 96:6) -- not too far off from "zombie," eh?

It all comes to down to men & women placing their 100% spiritual trust in what a mere lad said he saw. Here's what Lucky Mack said about her 17 yo son, Joseph, Junior: "During our evening conversations, Joseph would occasionally give us some of the most amusing recitals that could be imagined. He would describe the ancient inhabitants of the continent, their dress, mode of traveling, and the animals upon which they rode; their cities, their buildings, with every particular; their mode of warfare; and also their religious worship. This he would do with as much ease, seemingly, as if he had spent his whole life among them. On the twenty-second of September, 1824, Joseph again visited the place where he found the plates the year previous; and supporting at this time that the only thing required, in order to possess them until the time for their translation, was to be able to keep the commandments of God...he fully expected to carry them home with him. (Lucy Mack Smith, edited by Preston Nibley, History of Joseph Smith, p. 83, Bookcraft, Salt Lake City, 1958)

This was all before he had ever supposedly "translated" any gold plates of ancient history.

10 posted on 05/05/2009 11:20:53 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

So he did write it in 1826 but didn’t publish it until 1830 because he didn’t have the money to do it ... he had to convince others to pay for the publishing ...


11 posted on 05/05/2009 11:27:18 AM PDT by SkyDancer ('Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not..' ~ Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39

12 posted on 05/05/2009 11:46:22 AM PDT by Godzilla (TEA: Taxed Enough Already)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SkyDancer

If the BOM was ‘written’ in 1826 why would JS jr want to join the Methodists ....
__________________________________________________

If the mormon god told him, in 1820, when he was 14, that the Methodists were “abominable”, and he “was to join NONE of them”, why would Joey Smith want to join the Methodists ????


13 posted on 05/05/2009 11:56:12 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

placemarker


14 posted on 05/05/2009 12:00:52 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ("I, El Rushbo -- and I say this happily -- have hijacked Obama's honeymoon.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana; SkyDancer; Elsie

Worse yet, why did Joseph’s mother and sister Sophronia as well as his two brothers, Hyrum and Samuel, join the Presbyterian church in 1824 and remained members until September, 1828.


15 posted on 05/05/2009 12:03:40 PM PDT by Godzilla (TEA: Taxed Enough Already)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Godzilla

Worse yet, why did Joseph’s mother and sister Sophronia as well as his two brothers, Hyrum and Samuel, join the Presbyterian church in 1824 and remained members until September, 1828.
_____________________________________________

Especially since Joey had told his Mom, back in 1820, that Presbyterianism was untrue, and not to do it...


16 posted on 05/05/2009 12:11:55 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Godzilla

I had an ancestor who died a Methodist about 130 years ago...

The mormons took care of that error...

During the 1970s he decided to become a mormon (I reckon)

The mormons dead dunked him...

Now...

In the resurrection which religion will he belong to ???

Because two had him...

he joined two religions...

Christianity and mormonism...

One while he was alive...

One while he was dead...


17 posted on 05/05/2009 12:19:17 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Smith not only joined the Methodist Church ... Smith was booted out of the Methodist Church!

According to church records, the Prophet of Mormonism was expelled from the Harmony Pennsylvania Methodist Church because, "We thought it was a disgrace to the church to have a practicing necromancer, a dealer in enchantments and bleeding ghosts, in it."

Much more about this incident, including annotations, HERE.

18 posted on 05/05/2009 1:09:50 PM PDT by Zakeet (Thou Shalt Not Steal -- Unless thou art the government)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

“BLEEDING GHOSTS” ??????????????????


19 posted on 05/05/2009 1:15:33 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

http://www.mormoncurtain.com/img/mormonjoearrest.jpg

This photograph, reproduced in Tanner, Mormonism-Shadow or Reality, is the bill of Justice Albert Neely, showing costs involved in several trials in 1826, including that of “Joseph Smith the Glass Looker.” (The double “S” in “glass” appears likea “P”, as also in the word “Assault” in some of the other trials.) This bill shows that the published court record is authentic. The record for Joseph Smith reads: “Same vs Joseph Smith The Glass Looker March 20, 1826 / Misdemeanor / To my fees in examination of above cause $2.68.”


20 posted on 05/05/2009 1:29:09 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-59 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson