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A Look at Mel Gibson's Catholic Quandary
PopEater.com ^ | 6/2/2009

Posted on 06/03/2009 10:54:14 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

Spiritually speaking, Mel Gibson is wading through murky waters these days. The 'Braveheart' actor-director, an outspoken cheerleader for the traditionalist Catholic movement who built his own church so he could worship, is expecting a child with his girlfriend despite still being married. Isn't there a Commandment about that?

Gibson is in the midst of divorce proceedings with Robyn Moore, his wife of 29 years and mother to their seven kids. However, even mainstream Catholicism does not tolerate the kinds of dalliances the star has made, and the consequences for his relationship with 39-year-old Russian model Oksana Grigorieva are very real when he steps into his church.

PEOPLE spoke to experts in traditionalist Catholicism, a conservative breakaway movement that worships in Latin among other things, about what Gibson will have to do in order to get back into the good graces of his own church.

Communion: At this time, Gibson is considered an adulterer and is not allowed to take Communion. Members of Holy Family Chapel in Agoura Hills, Calif. confirm he's stopped. If he puts a hold on his relationship with Grigorieva and confesses his sins, he'll be allowed back into the fold.

Annulling His Marriage: In order to re-marry, Gibson has to get his marriage to Moore annulled. But since he was married in the mainstream Catholic church, he has to apply for the request through the Vatican. One problem: the official church does not recognize Gibson's new congregation of traditionalists.

Marrying a Non-Catholic: Gibson would have to get a dispensation from a Catholic bishop to marry someone outside his church. Again, the Vatican does not approve of the actor's congregation.

According to RadarOnline, Gibson lost his cool with congregants at his Agoura Hills church recently in what one source described as a "crazed rant." Angry with the congregation for gossiping about his ongoing divorce, his affair and their baby, Gibson reportedly delivered a furious sermon last Sunday.

A source claimed that Gibson "paced back and forth, furiously telling the congregation that he would not stand by and be judged and scrutinized."

"Mel got up on his stage -- the altar -- and went off. He tried to intimidate the parishioners by staring at everyone with his angry eyes. Mel even threatened to shut down the church if people kept gossiping about him. The bottom line is that if Mel hadn't cheated on his wife and gotten his Russian girlfriend pregnant, there wouldn't be much to gossip about."

With his fast-evolving personal life, it's unclear if Gibson is eroding his clout with the millions of people who helped make his 'The Passion of the Christ' the biggest movie of 2004. Critics, including MSNBC contributor Tony Sclafani, are enraged with the actor, saying he appeared flippant about the whole affair during a recent appearance on 'The Tonight Show.' (He called himself "Octo-Mel" since Grigoriva is having his eighth child.)

"What's worse is that Gibson seems unrepentant, to use church lingo. Even publicity mongers Jon and Kate Gosselin seemed more chastened when confronted with their alleged indiscretions. And that’s saying something."


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; gibson; melgibson
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According to RadarOnline, Gibson lost his cool with congregants at his Agoura Hills church recently in what one source described as a "crazed rant." Angry with the congregation for gossiping about his ongoing divorce, his affair and their baby, Gibson reportedly delivered a furious sermon last Sunday....

"Mel got up on his stage -- the altar -- and went off. He tried to intimidate the parishioners by staring at everyone with his angry eyes. Mel even threatened to shut down the church if people kept gossiping about him. The bottom line is that if Mel hadn't cheated on his wife and gotten his Russian girlfriend pregnant, there wouldn't be much to gossip about."

....With his fast-evolving personal life, it's unclear if Gibson is eroding his clout with the millions of people who helped make his 'The Passion of the Christ' the biggest movie of 2004.

1 posted on 06/03/2009 10:54:14 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

That’s what happens when you try to be your own Pope. His arrogance will destroy him eventually.


2 posted on 06/03/2009 10:56:29 AM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I would suggest getting a woman pregnant who isn’t your wife is more than a quandary. The term quandary is an understatement.


3 posted on 06/03/2009 10:57:17 AM PDT by Perdogg (Sarah Palin-Liz Cheney 2012)
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To: Alex Murphy

It’s also wrong to gossip. I’m waiting for Mr. Gibson to start his own church, ala Henry VIII.


4 posted on 06/03/2009 10:58:17 AM PDT by liege
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To: Alex Murphy
After Mel produced 'The Passion of the Christ' in 2004, he was targeted by the American elites.

Why he has conducted himself in such a self-destructive manner is a mystery. He must be drinking again.

5 posted on 06/03/2009 11:06:09 AM PDT by spald
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To: Alex Murphy

He is an actor and his actor persona controls his religious persona.


6 posted on 06/03/2009 11:08:05 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: liege

That is what he did for his current church. The Pope and the Catholic Church do not recognize his church.


7 posted on 06/03/2009 11:20:32 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: liege

Two totally different situations.


8 posted on 06/03/2009 11:20:57 AM PDT by chae (I am karmic retribution)
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To: chae

His girlfriend looks like OCTOMOM! I used to enjoy his movies years ago and thought he was one of the few conservatives left in Hollywood- but no more. He’s in the self-destruct mode and is now scratched off my list. Not many actors/actresses left to watch! I’m boycotting just about all of them, not to mention the movies these days aren’t worth watching anyway.


9 posted on 06/03/2009 11:29:01 AM PDT by growingpains
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To: Alex Murphy

“39-year-old Russian model Oksana Grigorieva “

I don’t think she’s 39.


10 posted on 06/03/2009 11:33:57 AM PDT by autumnraine (Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose- Kris Kristoferrson)
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To: growingpains

She does resemble octomom, glad I’m not the only one who thinks so.
THere are some movies I still like to see. “taken” with Liam Neeson was really good. There was a list on here awhile back that had most of the conservative actors on it. Mickey Rourke basically lost out on an Oscar, I believe for remarks he made in support of George Bush.


11 posted on 06/03/2009 11:35:11 AM PDT by chae (I am karmic retribution)
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To: Marysecretary
His "chapel" is not affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church, and his girlfriend is Orthodox, right?

Don't see where he's competing with the Pope.

12 posted on 06/03/2009 11:45:06 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Alex Murphy

A layman is giving sermons at a Traditionalist Catholic Church?


13 posted on 06/03/2009 11:47:08 AM PDT by RPTMS
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To: RPTMS
A layman is giving sermons at a Traditionalist Catholic Church?

Well, he did pay for the building and all :P

14 posted on 06/03/2009 11:51:57 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

A man like Mel has a lot of “perks” available to him. Avoiding temptation would be like a 400 pound man trying to diet at a buffet. Especially in a place like southern cal. He should have moved his family to a ranch is west Oklahoma so his walk would be consistent with the faith he professes.


15 posted on 06/03/2009 12:23:38 PM PDT by Augustinian monk
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To: Alex Murphy

Satan knows his job. He laid the bait and Gibson jumped on it.


16 posted on 06/03/2009 12:26:41 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: muawiyah; Marysecretary

I think Marysecretary makes an excellent point.

When one becomes one’s own Pope, the arrogance that inspired such an action is eventually not only self-destructive, but destructive to the “church” such an action created.


17 posted on 06/03/2009 12:28:23 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Alex Murphy
"Marrying a Non-Catholic: Gibson would have to get a dispensation from a Catholic bishop to marry someone outside his church."

Since when?! Nobody told me.
18 posted on 06/03/2009 12:30:25 PM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: jaydubya2

Well when my Uncle married outside of the church way bck in 1970 he needed the Bishop’s permission. If no permission is asked then your marrige isn’t recognized as ever taking place.


19 posted on 06/03/2009 12:39:16 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: Alex Murphy

Don’t look to celebrates for guidance in spiritual matters. They’ll let you down every time. He’s a very good actor, director and producer, nothing more and nothing less.


20 posted on 06/03/2009 12:42:45 PM PDT by Roux (Ignorance can be cured but stupid is forever.)
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To: muawiyah

He’s made himself Pope in his own eyes.


21 posted on 06/03/2009 12:47:00 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Shepherding is such a serious job. Mel, I love ya, but you’re clearly not shepherd material, even before this latest fall from grace. Remove yourself and stop embarrassing your family. sheesh


22 posted on 06/03/2009 12:47:17 PM PDT by mancini
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To: chris_bdba

I married a Catholic, we attended the pre-Cana classes, but I sure don’t recall my wife having to get premission from the Bishop. I have since converted to Catholicism, so, maybe were OK now. ;)


23 posted on 06/03/2009 12:49:17 PM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: liege

I’m missing how people in his ‘church,’ who presumably know Gibson, (who doesn’t deny the affair or his paternity of his misstress’s child) are “gossiping” ... they are discussing uncontroverted facts.


24 posted on 06/03/2009 12:59:22 PM PDT by EDINVA (A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul -- G. B. Shaw)
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To: Marysecretary
His arrogance will destroy him eventually.

I think his intentions regarding the founding of his church were sincere and an attempt to get back to "real" Catholicism, but I have to agree with you.

The Catholic Church does provide opportunities for died in the wool traditionalists to celebrate Latin Mass and worship with others of like mind. The FSSP (Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter) and even the Extraordinary Form of the Mass available in many parishes do serve this function. But if one rejects the authority of the Pope these would not be an option.

25 posted on 06/03/2009 1:00:28 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: jaydubya2
Dear jaydubya2,

The required dispensation may have been handled by the priest who performed your wedding. If your wife's parish priest was willing to perform the wedding, then the dispensation was not much more than a formality.


sitetest

26 posted on 06/03/2009 1:01:23 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: EDINVA
Angry with the congregation for gossiping about his ongoing divorce, his affair and their baby, Gibson reportedly delivered a furious sermon last Sunday

Well, I was just taking it straight from Mr. Gibson's mouth.

27 posted on 06/03/2009 1:03:21 PM PDT by liege
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To: sitetest
Thank sitetest,

for a moment I thought we might have been living in sin all these years!
28 posted on 06/03/2009 1:06:10 PM PDT by jaydubya2
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To: liege

I was a longtime Gibson fan, but it’s safe to say he’s NUTS. As a married man with 7 children, he conducts an extramarital affair, spawns yet another child, speaks publicly and jokingly of it, and then has the $&^#% to call it “gossip?”

If nothing else, he might consider the effects of this on his wife and children living as they do in a Mel-created fishbowl, not what others might be saying about him.

The man needs help. Fast.


29 posted on 06/03/2009 1:10:42 PM PDT by EDINVA (A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul -- G. B. Shaw)
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To: jaydubya2

If you took the pre Cana classes then the church got the permission for you. :)


30 posted on 06/03/2009 1:23:11 PM PDT by chris_bdba
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To: steve86
There are an incredible number of Protestant groups that were founded in order to "get back to the Original Christianity". Still, probably a good bet Gibson rejects the Protestant label.

He'll eventually come around and all will be well.

31 posted on 06/03/2009 2:43:46 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: jaydubya2

I married a Jewish man, and we also went to Pre-Cana conference and did NOT get permission from the Bishop to marry him!


32 posted on 06/03/2009 2:46:49 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: liege

It sounds like he DID start his own Church!! I had NO idea it wasn’t a Roman Catholic Church he belonged to.....and not sanctioned by the Vatican? What Priest says Mass there??


33 posted on 06/03/2009 2:48:13 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: liege

NO ONE but a PRIEST or a DEACON can give a SERMON ! It’s against Canon Law!


34 posted on 06/03/2009 2:49:20 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: liege

Sounds like he pretty much did.


35 posted on 06/03/2009 3:31:21 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: growingpains

I knew he wasn’t much of a conservative, but was willing to cut him some slack. I still think he was inspired when he made that movie, but he’s now at about the same level as Kiefer Sutherland, and that’s pretty low.


36 posted on 06/03/2009 3:33:08 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: RPTMS

Well, they call it a sermon, but it probably wasn’t the actual homily. We don’t officially HAVE sermons.


37 posted on 06/03/2009 3:34:25 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: Augustinian monk

Bah. Then he’s have corn fed country girls beating a path to his door. Hey, it’s a tough dilemma. I don’t have a lot of temptation in this area, but he was the big Old Catholic guy, let him walk the walk. He’s probably just waiting for the fling to be over then he’ll “fess up.” He better just hope he doesnt die in the meantime, in a state of rebellion.


38 posted on 06/03/2009 3:36:54 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: steve86

These people are sedevacantists, if I’m not mistaken.


39 posted on 06/03/2009 3:38:14 PM PDT by ichabod1 (I am rolling over in my grave and I am not even dead yet (GOP Poet))
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To: ichabod1

One could be practicing outside the Church yet not be a sedevacantist. In other words, a person could believe that the chair is not vacant (and the Pope is legitimate), yet prefer to worship outside for whatever reason. But generally what you say is true.


40 posted on 06/03/2009 3:51:36 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: FourtySeven; muawiyah; Marysecretary

***I think Marysecretary makes an excellent point.

When one becomes one’s own Pope, the arrogance that inspired such an action is eventually not only self-destructive, but destructive to the “church” such an action created.***

Mary is exactly correct. Mel has taken upon himself the task of creating his own theology. With expected results, I might add. Catholics as a group, after the Passion, were extremely grateful to Mel; the anti Jewish rant and now this: we are gravely disappointed and totally disapprove of his actions.


41 posted on 06/03/2009 4:36:21 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Alex Murphy

Sad.


42 posted on 06/03/2009 5:03:16 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: jaydubya2

I had to get a dispensation to marry my now-Lutheran, but soon-to-convert husband.

If you don’t remember doing it, it’s probably because your parish priest got it on your behalf after you met with him to discuss the wedding.

Regards,


43 posted on 06/03/2009 6:55:20 PM PDT by VermiciousKnid (Grab your gun and bring in the cat.)
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To: jaydubya2

1633 In many countries the situation of a mixed marriage (marriage between a Catholic and a baptized non-Catholic) often arises. It requires particular attention on the part of couples and their pastors. A case of marriage with disparity of cult (between a Catholic and a nonbaptized person) requires even greater circumspection.

1634 Difference of confession between the spouses does not constitute an insurmountable obstacle for marriage, when they succeed in placing in common what they have received from their respective communities, and learn from each other the way in which each lives in fidelity to Christ. But the difficulties of mixed marriages must not be underestimated. They arise from the fact that the separation of Christians has not yet been overcome. The spouses risk experiencing the tragedy of Christian disunity even in the heart of their own home. Disparity of cult can further aggravate these difficulties. Differences about faith and the very notion of marriage, but also different religious mentalities, can become sources of tension in marriage, especially as regards the education of children. The temptation to religious indifference can then arise.

1635 According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority.[135] In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage.[136] This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage and the obligations assumed by the Catholic party concerning the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.[137]

1636 Through ecumenical dialogue Christian communities in many regions have been able to put into effect a common pastoral practice for mixed marriages. Its task is to help such couples live out their particular situation in the light of faith, overcome the tensions between the couple’s obligations to each other and towards their ecclesial communities, and encourage the flowering of what is common to them in faith and respect for what separates them.

1637 In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: “For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband.”[138] It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this “consecration” should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith.[139] Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion.

http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/matri.html


44 posted on 06/03/2009 7:02:50 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Marysecretary
That’s what happens when you try to be your own Pope. His arrogance will destroy him eventually.

That's how you end up with denomination after denomination of non-Catholic churches frankly. Wasn't it Martin Luther who said he got rid of one pope and ended up with 300?

45 posted on 06/03/2009 7:10:49 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ([Advocate for] Mitt Romney[?], God help you, but you're on the wrong website ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Thanking God for non-Catholic churches. They escaped the bondage.


46 posted on 06/03/2009 7:26:55 PM PDT by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
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To: Marysecretary
Thanking God for non-Catholic churches.

I feel very sorry for anyone who would post such a thing, even accidentally.

Outside of Christ's Universal Church, there is nothing but misdirected cultish foolishness.

47 posted on 06/03/2009 7:31:42 PM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Alex Murphy

When did his father go nuts? Seems like the same syndrome.


48 posted on 06/04/2009 5:50:04 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug

Per folks who knew the Gibson’s in Ozone Park, Hutton Gibson was always a nut.


49 posted on 06/04/2009 5:56:18 AM PDT by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: Petronski
Outside of Christ's Universal Church, there is nothing but misdirected cultish foolishness.

Much like Mr. Gibson's "REAL Catholic Church" where all bow down to Pope Mel. It annoys me that the media still calls Mel "Catholic" and I haven't been a Catholic for sometime myself.

Mel is a very talented filmmaker, but, like so many other folks in that industry, a narcissistic freak.

50 posted on 06/04/2009 5:58:41 AM PDT by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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