Tiller’s missing excommunication (LCMS)

Get Religion ^ | 6/8/2009 | Mollie Ziegler

[markomalley]

Last Sunday, late-term abortion doctor George Tiller was gunned down in the foyer of his Lutheran church, where he served as an usher. As anyone with even a cursory understanding of Lutheranism in America could surmise, that church was a member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. Of the various Lutheran church bodies in America, the ELCA is the most mainline and has the most supportive position on legalized abortion.

As soon as the terrible news about Tiller’s murder hit the wire, many bloggers and liberal pundits noted that Tiller’s active church membership was at odds with the stereotype of how abortion and religion are related. It didn’t take long for that same meme to make it to the mainstream media stories.

What none of these stories have explained is that Tiller had previously been excommunicated by a Lutheran congregation on account of his lack of repentance about and refusal to stop his occupation. That Lutheran congregation was a member of my church body, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. Excommunication doesn’t happen terribly frequently in this day and age but it’s not unheard of. I don’t know any of the specifics about his past congregation or what led to the discipline and anticipated learning more about it when it was covered by the mainstream media. Unfortunately, that hasn’t happened.

When the news broke, I had many people who know that I’m Lutheran ask how it was possible that his church had not disciplined him or otherwise encouraged him to stop performing abortions. I had hoped that there would be stories exploring Tiller’s religious beliefs and church membership and that the stories would explain the difference between the ELCA and the LCMS. There is obviously quite a difference between a church body that would discipline a practicing abortion doctor and one that would welcome him in membership.

While we did get some stories about his religious views, none of them seemed to have any clue about his religious history. Note, for instance, this piece from the Salt Lake Tribune that was written Religion News Service’s Lindsay Perna and Tiffany Stanley:

Dr. George Tiller’s murder last Sunday morning in the lobby of his Lutheran church counters the secular image of a late-term abortion provider, pinning him more as a churchgoing “martyr” than a godless murderer.

Shot and killed while passing out bulletins in the lobby of his Wichita, Kan., church as his wife sat in the choir, Tiller is already challenging popular perceptions of both abortion providers and the abortion-rights movement.

“It shows a dimension of the movement that a lot of people don’t know about,” said the Rev. Carlton Veazey, president of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice. “This man was castigated for what he did — but he was a faithful member of the Lutheran church and that gives a different view of him and his work.”

Veazey sees the face of Tiller as more of “a martyr in the same sense that Dr. [Martin Luther] King was.”

The story goes on to quote various people about how Tiller’s church membership changes the dynamics of the abortion debate. How can they not mention that he was previously excommunicated for his abortion work? It’s such an interesting and significant part of the story! That’s just a huge hole.

Also, the pro-life people who are quoted in the story are of the Randall Terry variety. With the typical pro-choice activists and typical pro-life activists quoted, the story remains in the muck of “bumper sticker” rhetoric. It’s disappointing. (Robin Abcarian’s piece in the Los Angeles Times dealt solely with the Tiller funeral, which means its sympathetic tone is more appropriate. It also took the ‘Tiller busts stereotypes’ approach.)

After Dr. Tiller’s murder, some pundits were confused about how people who see abortion as the unjust killing of babies could also oppose the murder of someone who killed those babies. Here was one such essay written by a fellow libertarian. I saw one letter to the editor written by clergymen in my church body that addressed just that issue:

There is an old saying: Two wrongs don’t make a right. This does not appear in the Bible but it certainly reflects a scriptural idea. This concept, that two wrongs don’t make a right, is certainly true in the case of the murder of Dr. George Tiller.

Dr. Tiller was an infamous abortionist, who was one of the very few in the country who would perform late-term abortions. The Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod is strongly pro-life, and condemns the practice of abortion. Dr. Tiller, a former member of a Missouri Synod congregation, was excommunicated by that congregation for his abortion practice. (The congregation he was currently attending is part of another Lutheran body.) We stand by that action. Our sister congregation acted properly in disciplining Dr. Tiller. Such action is always intended to lead a person to see their sins and come to repentance. Excommunication is never intended to bring that person harm.

While we condemn Dr. Tiller’s actions as an abortionist, we just as strongly condemn the actions of the person who took his life. Murder, even of a murderer, is never acceptable. God teaches us in Romans 13 and other places, that the government is in place to enforce justice. We are never to take private vengeance. This is simply not given to private individuals. Murder in any circumstances is a grievous sin. It was our utmost desire that Dr. Tiller come to repentance, and perhaps in time he may have. We do not know. Only God sees all ends. Sadly, because of this heinous act of violence, Dr. Tiller no longer has that opportunity.

I can’t help but think that some enterprising reporter should look at how the two Lutheran church bodies handled Dr. Tiller’s occupation differently. It’s disappointing to read that RNS story in light of this rather dramatic back story.

[muawiyah]

Let's call it this ~ IMMORAL ~ but "they" have all the guns at the moment.

With a single vote of 5 people at the USSC it could flip in a second and abortion would still be IMMORAL but we could begin executing its practioners.

The whole business depends on who controls the organs of state.

You do understand that, right? And the same executioner who injected Mr. Hill would now inject the nurse he shot who survived.

BTW, the situation is, to say the least, "madness" and it will bring down the nation.

[Star Traveler]

You said — That’s a very interesting piece of information that adds a whole lot.

—

Yes, indeed...

[aberaussie]

I agree that pastors should ask sinners to repent. Have you heard any pastors preach a sermon against homosexuality, knowing that at least one gay person was listening? I haven’t heard of that.

As a matter of fact, yes....from an associate pastor in my former church (ELCA). The senior pastor was not happy.

[Charles Henrickson]

That is an interesting citation, particularly considering that (so far as I understand), Lutherans do not consider Holy Orders in the same way that Catholics do (as a sacrament).

Although we do not normally term it as such, Lutherans can call ordination a sacrament, if that is properly understood. From the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, Article XIII, The Number and Use of the Sacraments:

"But if ordination be understood as applying to the ministry of the Word, we are not unwilling to call ordination a sacrament. For the ministry of the Word has God's command and glorious promises, Rom. 1, 16: The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Likewise, Is. 55, 11: So shall My Word be that goeth forth out of My mouth; it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please. If ordination be understood in this way, neither will we refuse to call the imposition of hands a sacrament. For the Church has the command to appoint ministers, which should be most pleasing to us, because we know that God approves this ministry, and is present in the ministry. . . ."

But it didn’t answer the specific questions: is there an accepted code of Canon Law within LCMS that provides standardization of the legal process (to include excommunication)? Also, is there some variety of an appeals process?

It's not that legally detailed. The main issue is that of impenitence, persistent refusal to repent, after repeated admonition. What particular type of sin is involved is secondary; the problem is unrepentance.

Also, the pastor doesn't undertake and apply excommunication all on his own. He usually works first with the congregational lay elders, to try to lead the sinner to repentance. Then if the impenitent refuses to listen, the pastor and elders tell it to the church. If the impenitent refuses to listen to the church, and excommunication is then agreed upon by the congregation, it is carried out by the pastor, as the one entrusted with the public exercise of the Office of the Keys.

In practice, though, in recent decades, excommunication is rarely done.

[The Shrew]

Mollie Ziegler PING!

[wagglebee]

Pinged from Terri Dailies

[redgolum]

Yes I consider it to be murder. And in a civilized state, it would be prosecuted as such.

But last time I checked, I am not king. The authority to be judge, jury, and executioner is not mine. To say that it is, and that we would be justified in killing the abortion doctors, means that in effect we are in a civil war or rebellion. By that I mean the authority of a State, that of judging and administering punishment, has been taken up by an individual in contrast to the existing laws.

Did St. Paul tell the early Christians to rise up and kill the Romans? As bad as our country is, pagan Rome was worse. Much worse. They are not feeding Christians to the lions yet, and using our crucified bodies as torches to light the streets.

Yes Tiller was a murderer on a grand scale. And he had to stand before the ultimate Judge and answer for his crimes. But we, you and I, are not the ones in authority. Killing Tiller was also murder. It was not justified, neither in the doctrine of just war, or in the more secular realm of self defense. He was not killing at the time, he was handing out bulletins. Just like I can't go downtown tonight and kill the gang bangers hanging out in the pizza shop.

[P-Marlowe]

Yes Tiller was a murderer on a grand scale.

Not in the eyes of the law. He was just an ordinary doctor performing needed surgical procedures to help women.

By that I mean the authority of a State, that of judging and administering punishment, has been taken up by an individual in contrast to the existing laws.

You continue to misread what I have been saying. IMO Roeder was not acting as a judge, but as a citizen. Tiller was scheduled to murder 5 children on Monday morning and nobody was doing anything to stop him. Roeder acted "in defense of others."

Now if we admit that we don't believe that Abortion is murder, then Roeder is just another slimy murderer and deserves to be sentenced to death. But if we believe that Abortion is murder, then Roeder not only saved the lives of 5 children on monday, but now that the clinic is closed, due to Roeder's actions, 5 children a day will be saved from now on.

Nobody has the right to take the law into their own hands to extract "justice". Every citizen has the right to exercise whatever force is necessary to protect children from being murdered.

Therefore, if you believe that Abortion is murder, then you owe Roeder a debt of gratitude for what he did. If you don't believe abortion is murder, then you should call for his execution, as he is, in fact, a cold blooded murderer and Tiller was not.

Chew on that.

[SeattleBruce]

Yep, I can tell by their bulletins and such usually what kind of church they are. You can tell the liberal churches right away... Some are like reading a DNC newsletter! LOL
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

And people complain about conservative Christians being political? The liberal denominations with their central committees and ‘peace’ (read anti-America), ‘economy’ and ‘homosexual’ declarations - are ridiculously political.

[SeattleBruce]

“Therefore, if you believe that Abortion is murder, then you owe Roeder a debt of gratitude for what he did.”

P-Marlowe, you are wrong. There are SO many things Roeder could have done short of murdering Tiller. More pertinently, there are SO many things we can all do short of murdering abortionists.

If we all DID them, we’d stop abortion in its tracks.

P-M - do you not think it relevant to stop most abortions, or just the particularly gruesome 3rd trimester ones?

We owe Roeder no debt of gratitude for the molasses barrel of a moral quagmire he’s left us all in to climb back out of. We owe him our prayers.

There have been dozens of abortions in Wichita since 5/31/09. What are you/I doing about it?

[SeattleBruce]

“Therefore, if you believe that Abortion is murder, then you owe Roeder a debt of gratitude for what he did.”
+++++++++++

We do not murder murderers in a civil society. Sometimes society executes them. There is even a moral battle that rages about *that.* I was for the electric chair (or injection) for Tiller. I know, I know, we were not (yet) doing that in his case. We certainly need to FIGHT for just abortion laws, as we have been doing. I know, I know. But society needs to determine that. 51% of society identified themselves as pro-life before Roeder’s reckless act. That is where the long term battle that will stop most abortions lies.

[sitetest]

Dear P-Marlowe,

“Therefore, if you believe that Abortion is murder, then you owe Roeder a debt of gratitude for what he did.”

We owe him no such thing, for the reasons that I've laid out, and that you've ignored. LOL.

sitetest

[P-Marlowe]

P-Marlowe, you are wrong.

And you and many others on this thread and others are so right.

Thank you all for opening my eyes. I repent of my previous posts. I have thought this thing through and you have all changed my perspective on this whole matter.

Bruce, you, in particular, have convinced me that Tiller was a good law abiding citizen who was doing nothing more than providing needed medical services to women in the community. He was a fine church going Christian who was loved by his church and he was a well respected man in the community. What he was doing was perfectly legal.

These Anti-Abortion nutcakes who call Abortion "murder" need to look up the definintion of murder before they slander good men like Tiller. The first element of murder is "Unlawful". What Tiller was doing was not "unlawful" so as a result it was not murder! It is libel and slander to call someone a "murderer" when they are doing a legal act. Shame on you!

Roeder is a vile monster who deserves to die a painful death for what he did to this wonderful caring man, George Tiller. Gunning him down in the prime of his life when he had so much to offer his community, his church and the medical profession.

I can't wait until the stick the needle in that monster and unrepentant MURDERER Scott Roeder.

Now women all over Kansas are going to have to travel hundreds if not thousands of miles to seek out the kind of medical services that Tiller was so compassionately willing to provide. What a darn shame that is.

Thank you Bruce, and everyone else on this thread, for opening my eyes.

[P-Marlowe]

We owe him no such thing, for the reasons that I've laid out, and that you've ignored. LOL.

You're absolutely right, sitetest.

My sincere apologies.

Thank you for opening my eyes.

[sitetest]

Dear P-Marlowe,

Again, you argue against arguments I didn't make, but ignore those I did. I take that as an inability to address them.

sitetest

[SeattleBruce]

You're being cynical now P-M. It's OK to be wrong and I'm often wrong. Apparently it may be shocking to you to be wrong on something. But imho, I don't think I'm wrong on this one. Most of the characterization of what you just wrote is just ridiculous and not something I believe in any way, shape or form. But you blithely write it anyway. As I say, cynical. Too bad sir. I know you were extremely bothered by Tiller's vileness. If we don't agree with you - we somehow ‘weren't.’ Not true - and you cannot imply that - no matter your rhetorical excess.

It's too bad you can't seem to see the forest for the trees. Especially in that you've admitted that you're not even sure that abortion is murder publicly here. To what sense do you have to prognosticate to us? Just to call us hypocrites?

Why don't you work out whether that little miniature human being killed is indeed murder - then come talk to us about hypocrisy?

Meanwhile the mass of pro-lifers need to get about the everyday tasks of stopping the mass of abortion murders.

[P-Marlowe]

Again, you argue against arguments I didn't make, but ignore those I did. I take that as an inability to address them.

Sitetest, I have come to the conclusion that since what Tiller was doing was perfectly legal under the law, that he was not a murderer and that Scott Roeder, who cut him down in his prime is a murderer.

I'm done arguing on Roeder's behalf. He's a monster who killed an innocent man in cold blood.

Tiller was a model citizen and a good church going man who was providing a needed medical service that few doctors were willing to do. He contributed to his church and he probably funded a lot of charities and little leagues and did all manner of good within the Wichita community.

Thank you for helping me to see the error of my ways. The rule of law is the most important virtue that America has. In accordance with that rule of law, abortion is nothing more than a medical procedure protected by the constitution of the United States. Roeder was a monster to think that Tiller deserved death. It is Roeder who deserves death, as the law calls for the execution of murderers. It does not allow for the execution of medical providers.

[P-Marlowe]

Especially in that you've admitted that you're not even sure that abortion is murder publicly here.

You have shown me that it is not. Legally abortion is nothing more than a medical procedure protected by the Constitution of the United States. Tiller was NOT a murderer. He was a medical provider. Roeder cut him down in cold blood with no legal justification whatsoever. That makes Roeder a murderer and deserving of death.

Thank you again for helping the scales to fall from my eyes.

[sitetest]

Dear P-Marlowe,

If I believed that that's what you actually now thought, then we would differ signficantly.

You seem to only see a light switch - it's either on or off. Either Tiller was a bad guy and Roeder is a good guy, or Tiller was a good guy and Roeder is a bad guy.

Another false dichotomy.

sitetest

[SeattleBruce]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2267286/posts?page=94#96
P-Marlowe: “I don’t think so. I have many times called it “murder” but I have never taken affirmative action to stop it in its tracks. You don’t stand around and pray for a man who is about to slice the throat of a child, you shoot him in the head. Therefore, if I truly believed (as so many “pro-lifers” claim) that abortion is no different from Child killing, then I would have had to do something to stop it in its tracks and I would have done it 35 years ago!

Apparently for guys like you (and hypocrites like myself) the whole idea that Abortion is murder is nothing more than idle words and empty rhetoric.”
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P-M: “You have shown me that it is not.”
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You’re being disingenuous sir. At least be personally consistent while accusing others of hypocrisy. Oh, I see, you’re now playing games.

I’ve got more important things to do than play games with you P-M, no matter how clever you think you are at ‘reverse psychology.’