Mary not just for Catholics anymore

Catholic News Service ^ | Dec-8-2006 | Patricia Zapor

[netmilsmom]

That’s from a Protestant Bible.
From the Douay-Rheims it says....

“26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying, and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.”

Sorry if you have a bad translation.

[bdeaner]

If venerate means to honor, as you claim, would the Catholic church be willing to substitute honor for venerate in its descriptions of Mary and cease praying to Mary (and the saints)? I suspect not, which makes your claim of equivalence implausible.

Actually, if you look in the Catechism, "honor" is exactly the word the Catholic Church uses to talk about the veneration of Mary. "Veneration" is merely a synonym of "honor."

Here is what the Catechism states (bold text added for emphasis):

"All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship." The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God.'...This very special devotion...differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration." (CCC 971).

So, as you can see, in fact, the Church, in the Catechism, does not even use the word "veneration," but rather "honor," as does the 4th Commandment. And it explicitly distinguishes this honoring from adoration, as I have stated. When the Church uses the term "veneration," this is merely a synonym of "honor" and is not to be confused with adoration or worship. If this type of honoring cannot be wrong, because it is expressed directly by the Lord in His Commandments passed down to us through Moses, as we all know from the book of Exodus.

You also raise the separate issue of asking Mary and the Saints for intercession. That will require another post, because I will be happy to show you how intercessory prayer to Mary and the Saints is Scriptural, in terms argued by the Catholic Church, and also consistent with orientation to Mary and the Saints found among early Christians. More on that later...

[boatbums]

I appreciate your postings, you know your Bible.

Can you explain to me why FreeRepublic posts so many Catholic and Mormon teachings on the religion forum?

I get the feeling Evangelicals aren’t given the same consideration. Is this my imagination?

[narses]

"But where do you derive an eternal ministry out of that?"

Is she the Mother of God? Is she in Heaven? If so - as a Saint in Heaven, is not Her Ministry at least as valid as the Communion of Saints that the Apostles Creed confesses?

The Communion of Saints

A Statement of Evangelicals and Catholics Together

In a world where many believe that this life is all there is, Christians are called to bear bold witness to the solidarity of the communio sanctorum, a solidarity secured by our communion with Jesus Christ—crucified, risen, and coming again—and with all, both the living and the dead, who are alive in Christ.

Is not the Apostles Creed part of the Body of Christ?

[narses]

“Can you explain to me why FreeRepublic posts so many Catholic and Mormon teachings on the religion forum?”

Clearly the owner is a dreaded Mormon Catholic, a rare and difficult breed. Beware that you don’y offend, who knows the eternal {ZOT} torments that await?

[boatbums]

I honor my mother and I’m 56 years old. I do not, however, OBEY her anymore. Neither does she expect me to.

[Mr Rogers]

I believe yours is following the Vulgate to conform to your Church’s teaching. That is bias, not scholarship or honesty.

[netmilsmom]

>>I get the feeling Evangelicals aren’t given the same consideration. Is this my imagination?<<

Yes, that is your imagination.
Anyone can and do publish on the Religion forum.

The Catholics and LDS threads are hot because there is a group of people who jump on them instantly to “debate” or “minister”.

However, many FReepers would certainly enjoy an Evangelical POV and would welcome threads from Evangelicals. Some of us cross over threads to other religions for solidarity.

If you post something, I’d welcome a ping. If you don’t mind that I’m Catholic. Many of my family members are Evangelical and will vouch for me. *smile*

[Mr Rogers]

I don't like Wikipedia, but it is all I have at hand...

"The Douay-Rheims Bible, also known as the Rheims-Douai Bible or Douai Bible and abbreviated as D-R, is a translation of the Bible from the Latin Vulgate into English. The New Testament was published in one volume with extensive commentary and notes in 1582. The Old Testament followed nearly thirty years later in two volumes; the first volume (Genesis to Job) in 1609, the second (Psalms to 2 Machabees plus the apocrypha of the Clementine Vulgate) in 1610. Marginal notes took up the bulk of the volumes and had a strong polemical and patristic character. They also offered insights on issues of translation, and on the Hebrew and Greek source texts of the Vulgate. The purpose of the version, both the text and notes, was to uphold Catholic tradition in the face of the Protestant Reformation which was heavily influencing England. As such it was an impressive effort by English Catholics to support the Counter-Reformation."

[netmilsmom]

Actually, the Douay-Rheims is taken from Latin Vulgate, which is itself a translation from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.

Nevertheless, it was a translation of a translation of the Bible. Many highly-regarded translations of the Bible still use the Vulgate for consultation, especially in certain difficult Old Testament passages, but nearly all modern Bible versions go directly to the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek Biblical texts for translation and not to a secondary version like the Vulgate (written by Saint Jerome (345-420) a little bit before your translation)

And like I said, sorry your translation is lacking.

[boatbums]

I gave Bible verses...where are yours? Truth is absolute and not relative. The Bible is the inspired Word of God and calls itself thus. Traditions do not trump inspiration, at least not for me. You are certainly free to believe whatever you want but if you want to argue theology you have to pick an authoritative source we can both agree on. Do you not accept the Bible as a sole authority?

[Mr Rogers]

I think there are just a lot of Protestants, Catholics, and Mormons who wish to post about their faith. DU wouldn’t, since most posters there hate God.

[netmilsmom]

Yeah, and I’m sure those underlined parts were added by Catholics /s/

LOL!

Like I said, the Vulgate was a bit before the reformation.

[Mr Rogers]

I’m not the one quoting a 500 year old translation that, by your own admission, is from the Latin. Your use of a translation made from Latin to promote Roman Catholic belief 500 years ago makes your posts suspect, not mine.

[netmilsmom]

>>Truth is absolute and not relative.<<

Your own personal interpretation of scripture is yours.
Mine is mine.

I’m not the brightest bulb in the bunch and got Bible interpretation wrong during my “I’m going to do let God inspire me” phase.

Now I let the experts handle the job. They have been doing it as long as the Written Word of God has been around.

[netmilsmom]

ah-hem

“Actually, the Douay-Rheims is taken from Latin Vulgate, which is itself a translation from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek texts.”

Little older than 500 years ago, my FRiend!

[Salvation]

Adding to the discussion:

Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary

The Protestant Reformers on the Virgin Mary

Zwingli’s’ Mariology: On Mary “Full of Grace”

[netmilsmom]

I always love when you throw in the right links!

[boatbums]

You don’t sound like a loving person to me. If I try to persuade someone concerning my faith I do it respectfully. My post was for MrRogers and maybe should have been a personal post. That doesn’t give you the right to ridicule.

[narses]

If your mother asked you for a favor that you could easily grant, would you honor that request?