"And if there's life on other planets..." Reflections on God and E.T.

Christian Post ^ | 6/16/2009 | Randal Rauser

[RJR_fan]

Even many hardened scientists who would blanch at the idea of God as non-scientific become positively mystical when contemplating intelligent life from unknown worlds.

I once heard a radio talk show guest discussing UFOs and little gray men, etc. So I called in, and said that I regularly communicated with "non-human intelligences."

"Oh?" Asked the guest, sounded pleasantly open-minded and curious.

"Yes," I replied. "I'm a praying Christian, who regularly talks with my Creator. From time to time, I encounter angels and demons around me."

"Oh." he commented, dismayed to discover a stupid fundamentalist instead of an intelligent fellow traveler!

Seriously, we were made for an inhabited universe, made to interface with other intelligences. If we embargo God, we'll smuggle in aliens.

(I still yearn for the day to come when I can look into the night sky and pray for descendants glorifying God in their vocations on Mars.)

[Psycho_Bunny]

There are two flaws in what you're saying: 1st. The Universe is big. And that's just the observable part. We have no idea what's beyond the Cosmological Horizon. There could be millions of civilizations but there's no hope at all of ever discovering them, or vise-versa.

It would be like a paramecium in China finding a paramecium on Mercury. It's just not going to happen.

And 2nd, you're assuming technological advances are semi-exponential and that there aren't laws of physics that will stop or curtail the advances. We may very well be within 50 years of a technological plateau that we won't be able to leave for a thousand years.

[onedoug]

There's very likely not another intelligence in this galaxy. Perhaps in Andromeda or some other far flung system,
though in which case we'll never know it anyway. Thus consider ourselves alone. But God put us here, so what's the worry?

[calex59]

And if there is it would be impossible to get here short of “worm holes” in the universe. There are no habitable planets in our solar system and the nearest star is four light years away. Matter cannot exceed the speed of light. We’ll never know if there is, regardless.

It would only be impossible using our technology. Many things which seemed impossible at one time are possible today. Just because you, nor anyone else, knows of a way to cross light years of space in a short time doesn't mean it is impossible. God created the Universe. Do you think he did so just so humans on earth could have stars to look at? If his aim was just to create one planet with one intelligent species why create all the extra garbage that makes up the Universe?

[CharlesWayneCT]

Sorry, I disagree. Live on a single planet could be the abberation. And since we are the life, the fact that we know about the life on the ONE planet that has life is a tautology — any single planet with life would have life on it that would wonder if there was life elsewhere.

But as soon as you say there are TWO planets with life on them, that argument is out the window. Once the same thing happens twice, it greatly increases the likelyhood that it has happened elsewhere. And if you found two other planets with life, then you would almost certainly expect there were thousands more you hadn’t found yet.

No, while I think the changes of life on ANY other planet are slim, it is clear that, if there IS life on ANOTHER planet, there is likely life on multiple other planets.

Maybe you misunderstood my argument to suggest that because WE had life that there were thousands that did. That was not my argument.

[CharlesWayneCT]

The universe is big, but so is the number “1 billion years”. If the universe is 4-16 BILLION years old, and some other planet is a few million years ahead of us (a small number relative to the billions), that means they would have had a MILLION years of SETI looking for signals, and another couple million years of technology that was advanced by a MILLION YEARS over what we have.

All of our major technological advances have happened in the space of a couple of hundred years. Do you really think that, in 50 more or so, we will hit the end? There certainly is nothing in our understanding of science that suggests we just got lucky and suddenly understood all there was to know.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Nobody, but if we did so, then there was never time travel.

:-)

[Star Traveler]

You said — Scripture is full of descriptions of highly intelligent, non-human creatures. Humans, however, hold a special place in the creation

—

Those beings are called angels and they exist in several different classes of angels and different ranks. And, as we are told, the angels were not made to procreate and/or have families or get married or any of the sort (however, there is a violation of God’s order, in this regard, told in Genesis 6 and those angels were punished and imprisoned)

We also see that those creatures, who were made directly from God’s hand, just as Adam was, have divided into two groups — one group following Satan, who was the highest order angel ever created by God, and the others who did not rebel. They were split into a 2/3 group of non-rebelling angels, and 1/3 who did rebel and followed Satan.

The word used in the verse is ‘elohiym, and is translated God [5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God ...]

It’s the same original word that is used in Genesis for “God” creating everything, and for the translation of “God” in the following... “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;’ “

The translation that you refer to, as “the heavenly beings” does not carry the consistency of translation that the New American Standard translation does, being that it’s the *same word* used for the One who created the entire universe and all that is in it and created man, himself. It’s more properly translated “God”. In *any case* — remember, it’s the *same word* used in Genesis and Psalm 8.

ALSO, the “context” is in terms of God, Himself and no “heavenly beings” or “angels” are mentioned here... Note the context...

Your name
Your splendor
You have established
Your adversaries
Your heavens
Your fingers
You have ordained
You take thought
You care for him
You have made
You crown him
You make him to rule
Your hands
You have put all things under his feet

and then...

You have made him a little lower than *God*

There’s your comparison.... it’s with God, Himself...

—

It is used and translated the following ways and individual instances in the Bible...

God - 2326
gods 204
god - 45
God’s - 14
judges 3
goddess 2
great 2
mighty 2
godly 1
rulers 1
shrine 1
divine 1
divine being 1
exceedingly 1

It is found in these places in these numbers of instances...

Genesis - 192
Exodus - 111
Leviticus - 47
Numbers - 23
Deuteronomy - 312
Joshua - 65
Judges - 61
Ruth - 3
1 Samuel - 91
2 Samuel - 48
1 Kings - 90
2 Kings - 83
1 Chronicles - 101
2 Chronicles - 167
Ezra - 45
Nehemiah - 64
Job - 17
Psalms - 324
Proverbs - 5
Ecclesiastes - 36
Isaiah - 86
Jeremiah - 128
Ezekiel - 34
Daniel - 19
Hosea - 23
Joel - 10
Amos - 14
Jonah - 14
Micah - 9
Nahum - 1
Habakkuk - 2
Zephaniah - 5
Haggai - 2
Zechariah - 11
Malachi - 7

Total - 2250

The translation from the original is as follows, in the New American Standard, a Bible that is most commonly used in seminaries, for its very accurate translations and faithfully keeping to the original language.

The translation, as used in the New American Standard, is the most common usage of the word, ‘elohiym, as “God”. Also you don’t see it used in terms of the word “angel” anywhere in the New American Standard.

Just because someone may pick and choose a different translation, doesn’t mean that the other translation has chosen the correct “English word” to use for us to read — to convey the original word. In fact, if we just see that the original word was used *extensively* throughout Genesis for God creating the universe and man, himself, we’ll see that the translation (for the correct English word) is not right, even if it is in the New International Versioin.

---

Psalm 8

1 O LORD, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth, Who have displayed Your splendor above the heavens!

2 From the mouth of infants and nursing babes You have established strength Because of Your adversaries, To make the enemy and the revengeful cease.

3 When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, The moon and the stars, which You have ordained; What is man that You take thought of him, And the son of man that You care for him?

5 Yet You have made him a little lower than God, And You crown him with glory and majesty!

6 You make him to rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet,

7 All sheep and oxen, And also the beasts of the field,

8 The birds of the heavens and the fish of the sea, Whatever passes through the paths of the seas.

9 O LORD, our Lord, How majestic is Your name in all the earth!

---

Since we see that, here, it is said that God made man just a little lower than God (Himself), this may be the motivating factor behind Satan being prideful and wanting to establish himself over all, instead of “man” — where it says “You have put all things under his feet, ...”

That could have been the start to the prideful fall of Satan, when he saw what God did with mankind.

[Star Traveler]

The article asks — Is it possible that there is intelligent life out among the stars?

—

To which we can answer from the Bible and say, yes, they are called angels...

— — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — — —

And then the article asks — And if there is, what would be the theological implications of this fact?

—

The Bible also answers that and says that a part of those angels have rebelled and they are engaged in deception and the leading astray of many from the Word of God and the salvation He has provided — by means of their deception.

So, the “implications” of that are that we have to be wary of the deceptions perpetrated upon mankind from the angels who have rebelled and have rejected God’s order of things, in His universe, all of which He has created.

[Star Traveler]

The article also asks — That is, is it possible that there could be unfallen aliens? Creatures which are intelligent like human beings, but which do not sin?

—

Yes, they do not sin - and once again, they are called “angels” — more specifically in this instance, the *unfallen angels* — the ones who did not choose to abandon God’s way and go with the fallen angels and Satan.

[Star Traveler]

The article also said — It is also not quite as abstract and irrelevant as it might first seem. You see, if God the Son could simultaneously be both Jesus and Zorg, then could he also simultaneously be another human being?

—

Yeah, it’s sort of like President Bush saying that Allah and God are the same being that we all worship... LOL..

Sorry, I’m not taking their explanation of the Bible from President Bush or any others in Washington DC...

In fact, when we compare the atrributes of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to the attributes of Allah (as described by Islam, the Koran and the Prophet Mohammed) — we see that the attributes of “Allah” almost *exactly* describes the being who is called “Satan” in the Bible... :-)

The implication of “fallen beings outside of our earth” (i.e., those fallen angels) is *deception*....

[Star Traveler]

CharlesWayneCT, you were saying — Nobody, but if we did so, then there was never time travel.

—

God describes Himself as the *only One* who can tell the end from the beginning (as in “time”). And God has described Himself as existing outside of time, itself.

And from what we know, in a very limited way, from our human knowledge, “time” cannot exist independently by itself. It *must* exist in the space/time universe, all together at once. It cannot exist apart from the universe that we live in. In other words, if matter is around, then time must be there, and if matter and the universe did not exist, then time could not exist. Time came into existence at the moment that the universe began to exist (at least according to these physicists and in our own limited knowledge).

AND..., that does accord with the knowledge that God has given us in the Bible, in that He existed outside of time and outside of a universe that He created. That goes along with God being the uncaused and self-existent being, outside of time and matter and space (as in dimensionality).

Thus, it’s apparent that the Bible teaches that there is *no time travel* — other than God, Himself existing in *all time frames* at once, being outside of the entity of time, itself.

[Nabber]

I could see from your particular logic that you might disagree.

However, they are still independent events. Therefore the finding of another planet with life on it does not change the overall statistics, at all. It is still eyewateringly remote.

The chances that the Powerball lottery authorities find two winners does not mean there is then a greater chance that there are three or four or a thousand winners, implying they should pause and start scouring the results again, looking for other winners.

[Ro_Thunder]

God created the devil, so no, he is not on par with God.

[Quix]

Thanks.

END TIMES & UFO PING “B” LISTS PING.

Another propaganda puzzle piece prepping for . . . what . . . ???

. . . . . . .

[Nabber]

I will grant you and Charles that there is no possibility of time travel into the past. The entropic nature of the Universe forbids it.

But there is clearly already travel into the future, and we have already seen it proven, with identical atomic clocks, one on the ground and one in the air on an airliner moving at 500 mph. The clocks vary, in accordance with Einstein’s prediction.

Einstein predicted that close-to-speed-of-light travel would contract time. The twin paradox, which physicists agree on, would show that a twin starting travel to a distant star system could return to the Earth in a hundred years (say the year 2109), finding his twin sibling had died, yet he had aged just a few years. Therefore, he had transported himself into the Earth’s future, 2109, and would still have a good 50 years or so to finish out his life.

[Quix]

Thanks.

[Quix]

I have not read any . . . certainly not any convincing evidence

that

ANY of the UNFALLEN angels

are dinking around with earth vis a vis with respect to UFO type craft and goings on.

ALL those appear to be FALLEN angels.

[Star Traveler]

I don’t know if I would qualify the slowing down of one’s own personal time in how they are aging and experiencing it, as “time travel in the future” as much as everything moving a lot slower, time-wise, for the person in that position, so that when they “get back” they find that everyone else have moved a *lot faster* timewise and everything that they knew is now gone, having either aged and/or died and/or buildings torn down already and so on.

I wouldn’t call that time travel, actually...

[Star Traveler]

I was simply answering the article’s question as to whether there could be “unfallen beings” and yes there could be and yes there are (per the Bible). But, as you say, there are also “fallen angels”...., again per the Bible, God’s Word... :-)

It’s good for people to recognize that the deception that is being perpetrated, upon mankind, is by way of the fallen angels.