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To: Kolokotronis

Good to hear from you again.

Before becoming Patriarch of Moscow, St Tikhon was head of the Russian Orthodox Church in America, which is now OCA. Metropolitan Jonah is currently head of OCA. I know the Russians and Greeks debate which has primacy in America- the Russians cite Alaska and the Greeks cite New Smyrna.

The Churches of Jerusalem, Alexandria, etc, often called “Oriental Orthodox”, are historically monophysite. They broke from Constantinole and Rome in 451 because they could not accept the Definition of Chalcedon.

In the 16th Century, while the Western Church, at least on paper, held correct teachings regarding images and invocation of saints, popular piety in the parishes was completely different. By the time of Luther, actual practice regarding images and saints had become indistinguishable from idolotry and polytheism. And Church leaders did nothing to correct it. That is why Protestant and Anglican leaders removed the icons and relics (althought they did not eliminate stained glass windows). Icons are not evil, and in and of themselves have never been held to be evil. It was the excesses of “Romish doctrines and practices conerning them” that prompted Anglicans to get rid of them for a few centuries.


35 posted on 06/26/2009 7:06:52 AM PDT by bobjam
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To: bobjam

“Before becoming Patriarch of Moscow, St Tikhon was head of the Russian Orthodox Church in America, which is now OCA.”

The Russian Orthodox Church is nothing more nor less that the Russian Orthodox Church, no matter where its temples are located. The OCA is not the Russian Orthodox Church in America. It purports to be an autocephallous church, the autocephally of which is not recognized by Constantinople and the majority of the rest of the Orthodox Churches. The Russian Church does recognize its autocephally.

“Metropolitan Jonah is currently head of OCA. I know the Russians and Greeks debate which has primacy in America- the Russians cite Alaska and the Greeks cite New Smyrna.”

That’s not the issue regarding the OCA.

“The Churches of Jerusalem, Alexandria, etc, often called “Oriental Orthodox”, are historically monophysite. They broke from Constantinole and Rome in 451 because they could not accept the Definition of Chalcedon.”

There were and are churches which claim the titles of Patriarchate of Jerusalem, Alexandria and Antioch which are indeed monophysite. They are not the thoroughly and continually Orthodox Patriarchates of those cities which are quite alive and thriving. BTW, there is regular intercommunion between the monophysites and most of the Orthodox churches by economia since the early 1990s.

“It was the excesses of “Romish doctrines and practices conerning them” that prompted Anglicans to get rid of them for a few centuries.”

What precisely were those practices? Were they any different from the practices of, say, my parish today here in America? Iconoclasm is a declared heresy and given the declaration of the 7th Ecumenical Council, easy to avoid.

“We define that the holy icons, whether in color, mosaic, or some other material, should be exhibited in the holy churches of God, on the sacred vessels and liturgical vestments, on the walls, furnishings, and in houses and along the roads, namely the icons of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, that of our Lady the Theotokos, those of the venerable angels and those of all saintly people. Whenever these representations are contemplated, they will cause those who look at them to commemorate and love their prototype. We define also that they should be kissed and that they are an object of veneration and honor ( timitiki proskynisis ), but not of real worship ( latreia ), which is reserved for Him Who is the subject of our faith and is proper for the divine nature, ... which is in effect transmitted to the prototype; he who venerates the icon, venerated in it the reality for which it stands.”


36 posted on 06/26/2009 8:28:48 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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