Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: kingpins10
Evangelical and Catholic theologies both accept as the starting tenet of soteriology that we are saved by grace. God gives us his life as an act of generosity on his part. This is a not a point of disagreement between Catholics and Evangelicals. It is one of our glorious agreements! I'm sorry you do not appreciate that. Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification.

There are some differences in the ways Protestants, and in particular Evangelicals, define grace by referring primarily to its origin in God. Grace is typically defined as the free generosity of God through the self-giving of Christ. Catholics agree with this part of the definition but go on to define how the grace of God affects us when we are touched by it: grace is "any divine assistance given to persons in order to advance them toward their supernatural destiny of fellowship with God...Grace transforms a person's nature" (Our Sunday Visitor's Catholic Encyclopedia). Catholics will go even farther, distinguishing between santifying grace (supernatural life) and actual grace (supernatural aid).

The problem that Catholics have with Protestant soteriology is not the claim that we are justified by faith but the claim that we are justified by faith alone. Works continue the justification after faith has begun it. In other words, justification is not complete without complete sanctification.

All the Catholic position needs is, first, any scripture that indicates works are essential for justification. And secondly, the absence of any statement in the Bible that we are justified by faith ALONE.

First, Scripture does clearly and emphatically teach that works are involved in the "by" of justification. The most obvious passage is in James:

James 2:14-26
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[a]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[b] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.


Faith without action/works is dead. He says a man is "JUSTIFIED by what he does." The Catholic interpretation is validated by the fact that reformers attempted to put James into an appendix in the Bible rather than in its historically accepted place. But it cannot be ignored.

Nevertheless James is not the only place to find verses to support the necessity of works (AND faith) for justification. The Catholic view of justification by faith AND works (faith comes first) is consistent with the gospel of Jesus!

Our Lord, Jesus Christ's ideal was that of a life of good works flowing outward from a vibrant inner faith. The parables of the wide and foolish builders (Mt 7:24-27), the two sons (Mt 21:28-32), the good Samaritan (Lk 10:25-37), the talents (Mt 25:14-30), the sheep and the goats (Mt 25:31-46), and others all teach a unity of faith and works for salvation. The entire Sermon on the Mount is a discourse on Jesus' view of justification (justification and righteousness have the same root in Greek): "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven" (Mt 7:21). How much more explicit could Jesus have been?!?!?

In the Lord's Prayer (Our Father), Jesus teaches us to ask God to forgive us in the same measure that we have forgiven others. "Forgive us our debts [trespasses], as we also have forgiven our debtors [those who trespass against us]" (Mt 6:12). Catholics pray this prayer in every Mass. As a former Evangelical, I NEVER ONCE heard this prayer in an Evangelical Church! The theology of the Lord's Prayer just does not fit Protestant notions concerning salvation. For this reason, they feel it is better left unsaid. What a shame.

It is quite clear in Jesus' teaching that justification, and thus salvation, is accomplished in a unity of these two: faith and works. The whole process is made possible solely by grace. This is just what Catholic theology asserts.

Does Scripture anywhere state that "by faith alone" we are justified? The long and the short of it is--no. Those words are never, ever used in relation to justification anymore, by any of the NT authors. And no, not by Paul, who critized Jewish obligational works of law, e.g. circumcision, but not justification by good works. In fact, there are many passages in Paul's letters that support the necessity of good action for justification, including Philippians 2:12, Romans 2:6-8, etc.. And, by the way, the reformers tampered with the translation of Ephesians 2:8-10 -- it never said "faith ALONE," but rather that "BY GRACE" we "have been saved, through faith...for we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do GOOD WORKS."! In short, Paul agrees: grace makes possible justification through faith AND good works.
15 posted on 06/25/2009 10:22:57 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]


To: bdeaner
Does Scripture anywhere state that "by faith alone" we are justified? The long and the short of it is--no. Those words are never, ever used in relation to justification anymore, by any of the NT authors. And no, not by Paul, who critized Jewish obligational works of law, e.g. circumcision, but not justification by good works.

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God

T here is no difference between the ceremonial law and the moral law...

The ceremonial law deals with our relationship with God and the moral law deals with our relationship with man...They are all the same law as can be seen in Romans 7...

Your council of Trent and your Catholic church fathers knew better than to separate the two as can be seen here...

click here

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

It doesn't get any more clear than that...

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God

Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

The UNGODLY are justified...NOT those that do GODLY works for justification...

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Without works...Without works...Without works...

Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

You don't and can't work your way out of sin...PLUS, your sin is covered...

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

I realize this verse is completely alien to you guys but those of us who study the scriptures and BELIEVE everything God says know exactly what this means...Praise God...

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

You'll notice it does NOT say we might be justified by the Faith of Jesus Christ AND our righteous, moral works...

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them

ALL the things...Every one of the things in the Law...The moral and the ceremonial...

Doesn't matter what you believe...What matters is that God is very clear about Grace without works and a person would have to be a fool to teach about another gospel...

74 posted on 06/26/2009 6:09:26 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson