Replies

“The Catholic Church’s position on Mary’s sin is more complex and nuanced than some are assuming, it seems to me.”

What you have presented is neither complex nor nuanced. It is straightforward and simple and about as nuanced as the Dictatus Papae. For Latins, the Most Holy Theotokos was not created like other human beings. She was, in effect, a goddess and her Son, therefore, not at all True Man. I’d be troubled by that, were I you because that’s heresy. I’d be even more troubled that this heresy is occasioned, more precisely necessitated, by an unnecessary misunderstanding of the Sin of Adam.

“As stated, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception certainly includes the Blessed Virgin in the remote debt, and probably also in the proximate necessity of contracting original sin, which would have infected Mary’s soul had she not been miraculously preserved.”

Infected indeed! Here’s your problem, bdeaner. Without that nonsense you wouldn’t need the IC nor would you be in the unenviable position of denying Christ’s humanity by making his mother either a goddess or perhaps a robot by papal fiat.

Tell us, bdeaner, since Panagia was “impeccable” because God made it impossible for her to sin, why should she, who could not sin, be an example of anything to those of us who can and struggle not to, much less be an object of our veneration?

She was, in effect, a goddess and her Son, therefore, not at all True Man.

That's a straw man argument if I ever saw one. The Roman Catholic Church never has and never will teach the doctrine that Mary is a goddess. Her righteousness was not her own; it was a gratuitous gift of grace from the Lord, so that she could become the Holy Ark of the New Convenant that would carry the Word into the world. Nothing in this doctrine even remotely implies Mary was a goddess.

I’d be even more troubled that this heresy is occasioned, more precisely necessitated, by an unnecessary misunderstanding of the Sin of Adam.

First of all, let's be mindful of the important ecumenical relationship that has been established by the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics. As you know, in 1964, Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Anthenagoras mutually lifted the anathemas, so neither consideres the other to be hereitcal nor schismatic, and both recognize the true sacraments of the other, with Christ at the center. Benedict XVI continues with a very receptive, warm ecumenical relationship with the Patroiarch of Eastern Orthodox Christianity in Istanbul. So, throwing accusations of heresy at Roman Catholic doctine seems to be at ends with the spirit of your Patiarchs. Please do not exaggerate differences more than is necessary, which only serves to foster further antagonism between East and West, when what we need to do is work toward unity.

With that said, I simply do not accept the Eastern Orthodox view of original sin, and therefore believe the Immaculate Conception doctrine is absolutely necessary and without error.

As Taylor Marshall pointed out in a blog, the Eastern Orthodox are stalwart defenders of the first Seven Ecumenical Councils of the Church. However, two of these Ecumeical Councils (Ephesus in 430 and Nicea II in 787) received the explicitly Augustinian conciliar canons of the Council of Carthage in AD 418.

This Council of Carthage canonized nine beliefs to be received the Church. These nine statments were put forth to deny the errors of Pelagius. They are as follows:

1. Death came from sin, not man's physical nature.
2. Infants must be baptized to be cleansed from original sin.
3. Justifying grace covers past sins and helps avoid future sins.
4. The grace of Christ imparts strength and will to act out God's commandments.
5. No good works can come without God's grace.
6. We confess we are sinners because it is true, not from humility.
7. The saints ask for forgiveness for their own sins.
8. The saints also confess to be sinners because they are.
9. Children dying without baptism are excluded from both the Kingdom of heaven and eternal life.

Every canon was accepted as a universal belief of the Church and banished all Pelagians from Italy. These Carthaginian canons were accepted by the Church at the Ecumenical Council in AD 431. There were received yet again at the Seventh Ecumenical Council (the Second Council of Nicea) in AD 787.

This occurred when the Seventh Council ratified the Canons of Trullo (also called the Quinsext Council), which had received the Canons of the African Code which include those of the Carthaginian conciliar condemnations of AD 418.

Sooooo...it looks to me that Eastern Orthodox are bound to accept the nine beliefs put forward by the Council of Carthage of 418, which states that infants must be baptized and "cleansed from original sin."

So it seems that the Augustinian tradition is not something peculiar to the West, but something canonized by the Conciliar tradition.

How do you answer to that one, Kolokotronis?