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To: NYer
On the contrary. An implicit reference ca be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary in Luke 1:28: "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you." The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. This word represents the proper name of the person being addressed by the angel, and it therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates a perfection of grace that is both intensive and extensive. This means that the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit, and was not only as "full" or strong or complete as possible at any given time, but it extended over the whole of her life, from conception onward. She was in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called "full of grace."

All the wordsmithing in the world will not make "full of grace" mean "Empty of sin". Grace simply does not mean sinlessness. Infact it means the opposite, the more Grace God shows to one, the more sin that one has to be overlooked in or do be blessed. The definition of the word forces the notion of the sin remaining, otherwise there is no need for grace.

145 posted on 07/20/2009 11:22:19 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (I can reach across the aisle without even using my sights.)
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To: DungeonMaster

I believe this statement “Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates a perfection of grace that is both intensive and extensive.” is a misunderstanding of what the perfect tense means. It is a grammar term, and I’ve read that it merely means the act was complete. Hence, in Luke 1:27, her engagement to Joseph used the perfect past participle - it merely means she was fully and completely engaged to be married - not that she had perfectly been engaged, better than anyone had ever been engaged before, or that her engagement would last forever and ever, or that she had been engaged from all eternity.


146 posted on 07/20/2009 11:34:45 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: DungeonMaster; NYer
Grace simply does not mean sinlessness. Infact it means the opposite, the more Grace God shows to one, the more sin that one has to be overlooked in or do be blessed.

Grace actually means a gift that is unearned, or gratuitous (notice the etymological link between the words grace and gratuity). In theology, grace is the gift of righteousness or justification that is given to persons by God without our having earned or merited it. This is a basic theological point on which Catholics and Protestants are in complete agreement (but not Orthodox Catholics, as you will see above in another discussion).

So when Mary is said to be 'full of grace,' this means she is full of righteousness that is not merited nor earned, endowed by God, specifically for the purpose of her becoming the unsoiled Ark within which the Word made flesh may be carried into the world.
148 posted on 07/20/2009 12:41:55 PM PDT by bdeaner (The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? (1 Cor. 10:16))
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