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To: Mr Rogers; PugetSoundSoldier

It is by letting the scripture speak for itself that we find out that both sinlessness and perpetual virginity of Mary make scriptural sense, and the fantasies about her being “quick to shed blood” and having given birth to God proceeding to make more little’uns like nothing happened make no scriptural sense.

Ditto for Purgatory, by the way. What do you think 1 Cor. 3:9-15 describes, AWANA class?


149 posted on 07/20/2009 12:59:54 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex

Try READING 1 Corinthians 3, and then tell me again how it is about Purgatory - because it is painfully obvious that it is not.


154 posted on 07/20/2009 1:27:20 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: annalex

“Ditto for Purgatory, by the way. What do you think 1 Cor. 3:9-15 describes, AWANA class?”

Lest anyone reading think there is some validity here, let’s review 1 Cor 3.5-15:

“What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth. He who plants and he who waters are one, and each will receive his wages according to his labor. For we are God’s fellow workers. You are God’s field, God’s building.

According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and someone else is building upon it. Let each one take care how he builds upon it. For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”

The ‘you’ is obviously the church at Corinth. Paul laid the foundation, which is Jesus Christ. Others are building on that foundation. But how they build is important.

If they build with metal and stone, so to speak, then their WORK will be judged by God as well done, when “the fire will test what sort of work each one has done”. Those who have been sloppy and built poorly - with wood or straw - will see their work burned up. “If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”

He will still be saved, but he will not receive the reward a good worker who has built soundly will receive.

No Purgatory. It is painfully clear that WE will not be burned, but that our works will be tested - “the fire will test what sort of work each one has done”. Our ministry. Not us.

When Erasmus wrote that scripture was hard to interpret, Luther laughed at him. Why? Because it is NOT that hard to interpret. If someone wants to debate the exact nature of Jesus, it becomes complex. Why? Because God didn’t reveal it to us, and we are not capable of figuring it out for ourselves. But that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all God, and that God is One? We may not understand it, but we can accept it.

Any moderately important doctrine is plainly revealed. It may not be easy to understand from a philosophical viewpoint, but it can be understood and accepted by anyone who wants to obey God.

Purgatory? No where to be found.

Mariology? No where to be found.

Indulgences? No where to be found.

Peter uber alles? No where to be found.

Saved by grace through faith? All over.

Eternal life by believing? All over.

All are sinners needing a saviour? All over.

Simple, unless one chooses to make it hard by refusing to accept the teaching of the Apostles and Scripture.


158 posted on 07/20/2009 2:00:20 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: annalex
It is by letting the scripture speak for itself that we find out that both sinlessness and perpetual virginity of Mary make scriptural sense, and the fantasies about her being “quick to shed blood” and having given birth to God proceeding to make more little’uns like nothing happened make no scriptural sense.

Then please show where the scripture says as much - that Mary was without sin and was perpetually a virgin. For it's not in any Bible I've read...

Posting excerpts from commentaries on the Catechism doesn't cut it, since they do not include scriptural references. You state the scripturs speaks for itself - sola scriptura on this point. Then show where in the scripture you find the basis for these claims. Book, chapter, and verse.

194 posted on 07/20/2009 6:13:18 PM PDT by PugetSoundSoldier (Indignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible)
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