Replies

And further, it is not right to lump in liberal “Protestants”, along with the more conservative. AFter all, the Catholic Church also has its social gospel advocates, its gay advocates, etc. The Church rejects their ideas? So do conservative Protestans.

For me, I can’t become a Catholic, nor even consider it, as long as that”Mary, the Mother of God” nonsense exists. Mary was a human woman, created by God, not His mother. She was, however the mother of the man, Jesus.

For me, I can’t become a Catholic, nor even consider it, as long as that”Mary, the Mother of God” nonsense exists. Mary was a human woman, created by God, not His mother. She was, however the mother of the man, Jesus.

Ah, the old Theotokos controversy. I wonder if you have read about the fights that happened in the Church in the 3rd - 5th century over that very term, "mother of God".

Many argued, like you do that Mary was just the mother of the MAN Jesus, not the Mother of God (which seemed to them, like it seems to you as if exalting Mary over God -- it doesn't, btw, but more about that in a minute)

However, let's examine a few things. You do agree that Jesus was wholly man and wholly God? That's a basic orthodox belief.

We are not like the Arians who state that Jesus was a lesser God or that He was created by God, or that he was a man who was "adopted" by God or that he was only God and the mantle of humanity was just a hoax.

you don't believe any of those, do you? you, I presume, believe in the orthodox belief of Him being completely God (from before time, uncreated, of one being, substance, homousis with the Father -- God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made) and yes also completely man.

you do believe that there two "natures" were inseparable, indivisable etc.

your point about "Mary was a human woman, created by God," -- is what we Catholics believe in too.

however, we say she was the holder of the womb in which Jesus came from -- and Jesus was wholly man and wholly God. Hence she was the Mother of God, Theotokos. She was not the "creator" of God, just like our mothers didn't "create" us, but they gave birth to us. In the same way Mary was the Mother of God, not His creator, not His equal in any way.

As the vessel in which Christ came into the world, she is worthy of respect, do you not believe that?

“For me, I can’t become a Catholic, nor even consider it, as long as that ‘Mary, the Mother of God’ nonsense exists.”

May I make a suggestion? The crux of Catholicism is the Eucharist. If you were to study early translations of the Gospels, the historical record of the early Church, and other historical writings, and form an educated opinion of the Holy Eucharist, you might find that concerns about Mary’s status are put in perspective.

If Catholics are right about the Eucharist, then we’re right about everything. Find out what we really believe about the Eucharist and the rationale for those beliefs, before you decide.

She was, however the mother of the man, Jesus.

IOW, you don't accept the hypostatic union? Just to clarify . . .