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To: Cronos

Well, I don’t know that you’ve convinced me. But to me it’s irrelevant anyway. As a saved Christian, Christ is the mediator between God and me. Mary is just another sinner who has been redeemed as far as any relationship between me and God is concerned, although you have to admire her faith, far greater than I think that I can claim.

However, enlighten my ignorance here. As I have said, I know little about the Catholic Church, other than what I have read, including their own literature. What is all this “Hail, Mary” stuff if not worship? What is the point?


78 posted on 07/23/2009 5:38:53 AM PDT by chesley ("Hate" -- You wouldn't understand; it's a leftist thing)
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To: chesley
Well, I don’t know that you’ve convinced me. But to me it’s irrelevant anyway.

you just said that you had an issue with the term "Mother of God" -- I told you that if one believes in Jesus being wholly man and wholly God and born of Mary, then by logic alone, Mary was the Mother of God and also that that does not convey in any way that she is anything but inferior to God. That is what I believe and what The Church believes too.

Do you not agree with that logic (also with the statements that she is not anything BUT the inferior of God)
79 posted on 07/23/2009 5:50:19 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: chesley
As a saved Christian, Christ is the mediator between God and me

Christ IS God. He is not a created being, not an "avatar", not a "lesser god".

Mary is just another sinner who has been redeemed as far as any relationship between me and God is concerned, although you have to admire her faith, far greater than I think that I can claim.

Yes, she had a great faith that we all can emulate and admire.

However, enlighten my ignorance here. As I have said, I know little about the Catholic Church, other than what I have read, including their own literature. What is all this “Hail, Mary” stuff if not worship? What is the point?

Ah, no wonder -- a lot of what is written about The Church by those outside it is just plain hearsay.

Take the "Hail, Mary" being worship.

What is the full wording of the Hail Mary?

Hail Mary, full of grace.
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou amongst women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners,
now and at the hour of our death.
Amen.

Is this worship? No. The Lord was/is with her. She was/is blessed to have borne Jesus, correct? Finally, we ask her to pray for us, we don't ask her to save us (something she can't do as she's not divine).

82 posted on 07/23/2009 5:56:17 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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To: chesley
The Hail Mary is called the Angelic Salutation, because it begins with the salutation addressed by the Archangel Gabriel to the Virgin Mary. The words of the Hail Mary are partly the Archangel Gabriel's, partly St. Elizabeth's, and partly the Church's. The angel said these words (Hail, full of grace, The Lord is with thee.) to Mary when he went to announce to her, on the part of God, the mystery of the Incarnation that was to be wrought in her.

We are meditating on the life of Jesus. So the repetitions of the Hail Mary are used as a form of meditation. We are honoring Mary's role in Jesus's life and asking her to bring us closer to Jesus.

Yes, God is omnipotent and can very easily handle everyone's prayers. He handles all prayer, including the Hail Mary. He's God. But it's nice to have a personal relationship with Jesus's mother, too
83 posted on 07/23/2009 6:04:56 AM PDT by Cronos (Ceterum censeo, Mecca et Medina delendae sunt + Jindal 2K12)
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