Episcopalians, Lutherans Taking Action on Sexuality Topics

ELCA News Service ^ | 21 July AD 2008 | Melissa Ramirez-Cooper

[lightman]

Rev. Donald McCoid, former Bishop of the Southwestern Pennsylvania Synod is as solidly orthodox as they come. He was the front runner for Presiding Bishop of the ELCA in 2001 until suddenly and surprisingly defeated on the final ballot by Mark S. Hanson. One can only imagine how much better life together in the ELCA would be had the vote gone the other way.

So for Bp. McCoid to offer comments distancing the ELCA from the actions of the General Convention is not spin or damage control but the pious hope that his church can and will do better.

But alas, the New England Synod has already promulgated a suggested order of sevice for blessing same-sex unions, rationalized on the basis of "pastoral care" due to changing state laws.

[lightman]

Lutheran (ELCA) Ping!

Be sure also to read:

Pastoral Guidance Concerning Same-Sex Unions

Delight, Design and Destiny: Toward a Doxological Ethics of Sexuality

Statement by Three Dissenting Members of the ELCA Task Force on Human Sexuality

It’s Not About Homosexuality--Not Really

I think I want a Divorce

“Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust”: A Critique by Carl E. Braaten

When There Are No Biblical or Theological Grounds to Change, Don’t

WordAlone Network responds to ELCA human sexuality proposals

Lutheran CORE leaders urge rejection of ELCA task force recommendations

[wagglebee]

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[lightman]

Ping.

[bareford101]

as far as I am concerned, these two church denominations have lost all credibility.... when you begin choosing the parts of God’s Word that you believe, and the parts of God’s Word that you don’t.... well, you are doing your own thing....not God’s thing....

[wagglebee]

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for much less than these supposed “Christians” are actually promoting.

[lightman]

Rev. Donald McCoid, former Bishop of the Southwestern Pennsylvania Synod is as solidly orthodox as they come. He was the front runner for Presiding Bishop of the ELCA in 2001 until suddenly and surprisingly defeated on the final ballot by Mark S. Hanson.

Should have added that Bp. McCoid's appointment as ecumencial officer by PBp Hanson is the eccelesiasitcal equivilant of President Obama appointing Hilary Clinton as Secretary of State. Keep your enemies close.

[Secret Agent Man]

Yep, nothing like secular government and hot cultural trends to force one to modify their spiritual truths.

[PhilCollins]

I know an ELCA member who supports ordaining gays and holding gay weddings, in church. She said, “The church should conform to society.” I said, “No, society should change, to obey the Bible.” She was speechless, but she didn’t change her mind.

[Secret Agent Man]

Well to be fair, one refuting sentence said to someone who thinks what she said, isn’t going to make her change her mind.

But I know the type of person you’re talking about. It tells me either she is either just filling a seat every time she happens to go to church, or the pastor there is not sending out the proper message, or at least not effectively.

[RobinOfKingston]

... rationalized ...

Rationalizing and discernment (as mentioned in the article). Had these been the only two mental processes use by C Columbus he really would have sailed off the edge of the Earth, much like the Great Big Lutheran Church (GBLC) is about to do.

[lightman]

But I know the type of person you’re talking about. It tells me either she is either just filling a seat every time she happens to go to church, or the pastor there is not sending out the proper message, or at least not effectively.

In such situations (and they are Legion) Lutherans trust Luther's explanation of the Third Article of the Creed that the Holy Spirit "produces faith when and where He pleases

It is a mystery that we will not understand until the last great Day of why there are what appear to be many times when productive faith just doesn't seem to please the Holy Spirit.

[Trod Upon]

Amazing how many members view the ELCA church as nothing more than a networking opportunity, isn’t it? They don’t even give the supposed basis of their “faith” a second thought. It’s one of the reasons I left. Kind of reminds me of Congress and the Constitution.

[Secret Agent Man]

I am not talking about the Holy Spirit convicting or producing faith.

I am talking about the part that we as people can do. NOT SPREADING FALSE DOCTRINE. NOT SPEAKING THE TRUTH. AVOIDING SPEAKING CERTAIN TRUTHS BECAUSE THEY ARE HOT BUTTON ITEMS. ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO DO EVIL BY CALLING IT GOOD.

That’s what I am referring to.

[lightman]

Understood.

It is up to us to keep the Gospel proclamation as pure as humanely possible.

And there are far too many wolves in sheeps clothing these days acting as the false shepherds condemned in Ezekiel 34.

[narses]

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[iowamark]

Rev. Donald McCoid, former Bishop of the Southwestern Pennsylvania Synod is as solidly orthodox as they come.

Perhaps in your mind, perhaps in his own mind he is "solidly orthodox." But it certainly sounds as though his public life involves much active cooperation with Evil.

[PhilCollins]

I said a lot more than that sentence, about that subject. We debated the topic for about a half hour.

[Honorary Serb]

It is very sad for me to see Bp. McCoid, the former Lutheran head of the Orthodox-Lutheran dialogue, forced into the position of having to do a public ecumenical “dance” for the heretics and schismatics who run the ELCA.

He really should have, upon his retirement, gone home to the Orthodox Church, joining his many Orthodox friends (including his close friend, the Greek Orthodox Bishop of Pittsburgh), and joining me, the unworthy layman. And that should have served as an example to other ELCA Lutherans of where HOME really is, and that it is time to go there.

There is still time for Don McCoid to go home to Orthodoxy, even after the coming debacle in August. May God direct his steps!

As you say, the New England Synod has the reputation for being far out ahead of other ELCA synods in “welcoming” “gays” by excusing their sins. But many ELCA pastors all over the country “bless” “gay” unions, and quite a few ELCA “bishops” wink at gaysbians, both “partnered” and promiscuous ones, being ordained and serving in congregations. So it’s all over but the shouting.

[Honorary Serb]

Please, iowamark, read my post #19.

We are all sinners, and are all often made to serve as covers for evil. “Mainline” heretical and schismatic leaders even use the presence of solidly orthodox members in their congregations to convince outsiders that they have “room” for the orthodox in their “big tent”.