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To: Mr Rogers

***“The notion of personal fellowship and relationship did not exist in early Christianity; it did not exist until relatively recently; it is not Scriptural and it is not Traditional.”***

The verses you quote do not mean what you say they mean. The English is lacking.

***“For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. 15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God...”***

Let us go and find all those who are called sons of God.

Job 1:
6 Now on a certain day, when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them.

Sons of God here are angels.

Job 2:1 And it came to pass, when on a certain day the sons of God came, and stood before the Lord, and Satan came amongst them, and stood in his sight, 2 That the Lord said to Satan: Whence comest thou? And he answered, and said: I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it.

More angels.

Psalm 88:7 For who in the clouds can be compared to the Lord: or who among the sons of God shall be like to God?

Just and pious men.

Deuteronomy 14:50: the nation of Israel.

All of the kings holding their rule from God in the OT were called sons of God. The OT Giants were called sons of God.

Does God have a personal fellowship and relationship with the Giants? The angels? Every single member of the House of Israel? C’mon, let’s do better than this.


417 posted on 08/04/2009 8:19:44 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr

Please tell me you are NOT claiming Romans 8 is referring to angels...


418 posted on 08/04/2009 8:47:16 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: MarkBsnr

“9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him. 12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” - John 1

“5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” - John 3

“4But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.” - Galatians 4

” 18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. 23And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” - Romans 8

“that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.” - 1 John 1

” 1See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. 3And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.” - 1 John 3

“In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will” - Ephesians 1

” 31What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised— who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? 36As it is written,

“For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.” - Romans 8

Are you seriously denying that we are called to be God’s children? Family?


419 posted on 08/04/2009 9:08:48 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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