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To: Making_Sense [Rob W. Case]; Alex Murphy
Pertaining to the Jews, the year 1897 was the spark that led the new Zionist movement. On August 30, 1897, the first Zionist Congress was established. By 1900, 50,000 Jews began migrating to Israel. But it didn’t end there.

So I guess from these statistics and timeline covering many decades you are ready to concede that the notion of modern secular Israel being “born in a day” is futurist fiction. It was born of political will by the nations, not an identifiable miraculous single event.

Add to this, as I have said, that modern Israel is not a “nation” in the biblical sense. Biblical Israel was governed in toto by three officers, prophet, priest, and king (1 Kings 1:34). Prophets spoke the Word of God. Priests administered the sacraments of God. Kings ruled by the law of God. These offices in biblical Israel we meant to prefigure the three-fold office of Messiah. There is no three-fold office in modern, secular, “democratic” Israel.

Again, where in the Bible does God indicate that He would regather Israel to the land while still in abject unbelief and dead in spirit, still rejecting Him has the God of the covenant?

33 posted on 08/20/2009 7:02:13 AM PDT by topcat54 (Don't believe in a pre-anything rapture? Join "Naysayers for Jesus")
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To: topcat54

Topcat’s Question:
So I guess from these statistics and timeline covering many decades you are ready to concede that the notion of modern secular Israel being “born in a day” is futurist fiction. It was born of political will by the nations, not an identifiable miraculous single event.

My Answer:
It’s not a concession. Israel was born in a day. On May 14th, 1948 it was recognized as a sovereign nation. It has been recognized since then as a sovereign nation. Only God could have created this. Israel’s birth was unique and it was unique because God was behind it. Here is another analogy pertaining to the duration between the spark (1897) and the fire (1948)to help support my point. When you apply for a job, you always write down the duration for which you worked, you do not include the amount of time for which you wanted to work at the place you worked at previously. Those details are irrelevant. In 1897 Theodore Herzl pretty much sparked the want. Then, throughout the years, world events escalated to a point where it became a need. The need, especially after the Holocaust campaign was seen as a vitality.

I think I understand more that you are looking for the re-emergence of the biblical Israel to return. While the nation returned as a political nation, Israel is not as secular as you think. Israel, in my opinion, is in a gridlock, meaning that the orthodox Jews, the secular Jews, and the awkward political relationship between the Jews and the Muslims are preventing the re-emergence of the theocratic state. Orthodox Jews have been in the process of re-creating the theocratic Israel explained in the Old Testament for years. I remember in either 2002 or 2003, they finally had a kosher red heifer. In 2004, the re-establishment of the Sanhedrin was re-inaugurated after 1,600 years of absence. What does that mean? It’s interesting, but based on Daniel 9:27, and Daniel 11:31, the antichrist will provide the political clearance for which the Israelis can become what you are expecting.... a theocratic state. When the church is gone at the rapture, theocratic Israel will emerge, and replace the church as the single point of hatred in the world. THEN, THE WORLD WILL HATE ISRAEL BECAUSE OF GOD. A deluded world under the spellbinding control of the Antichrist and the existence of Old Testament style Israel in the midst of this will cause the world to go haywire.

Topcat 54, the point I’m trying to make is that the nation of Israel had to be in existence politically for the end times. That has happened. The works for theocratic Israel have been in place now for some time. Again, Israel is not as secular as you think it is. In fact, in my video library I have a tape that shows the relics completely prepared for use at the event of the building of the Third Temple. They all openly admit that they are waiting for the political environment for which it can return.


37 posted on 08/21/2009 12:28:07 AM PDT by Making_Sense [Rob W. Case]
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