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To: Mad Dawg
How is not erring in matters of faith or morals equivalent or identical to enjoying personal perfection?

Never said they were the same...Sure a man of God; a preacher, a pastor can err, can and will sin...But that's not the point...

No one criticized any of your popes for not being perfect nor for being less than perfectly moral...

The point is that there is no way the Holy Spirit would commission a man to lead God's church who bought the position of leader...

I would say without any hesitation that the pope who bought his way in was not a Christian...And he certainly had no apostolic succession...

385 posted on 09/09/2009 5:02:16 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
I would say without any hesitation that the pope who bought his way in was not a Christian...And he certainly had no apostolic succession...

I would say he was a lousy Christian. I'd go with Augustine on this. It sounds like you go with the more perfectionist Donatus.

388 posted on 09/09/2009 5:38:06 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Iscool; Mad Dawg
No one criticized any of your popes for not being perfect nor for being less than perfectly moral...

Really? Not ever?

The point is that there is no way the Holy Spirit would commission a man to lead God's church who bought the position of leader...

The Holy Spirit is powerful enough to make a vicar of Christ out of a man that flawed. But the Pope is not the leader of the Catholic Church (God's Church).

Christ is the leader of the Catholic Church.

God is powerful enough to protect His Church from errors in the Deposit of Faith even with so flawed a Vicar of Christ. It is a testament to the power of the Holy Spirit.

How is not erring in matters of faith or morals equivalent or identical to enjoying personal perfection?

Never said they were the same...
But that's exactly the point. Saying the Holy Spirit would not commission a man so flawed is in fact conflating them, if not equating them.
391 posted on 09/09/2009 5:56:14 AM PDT by Petronski (In Germany they came first for the Communists, And I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist...)
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To: Iscool
The point is that there is no way the Holy Spirit would commission a man to lead God's church who bought the position of leader...

Really? One could also charge that the Son of God would never commission a man like Judas to be an Apostle, who would betray Him for thirty pieces of silver.

The undercurrent of what you're saying - and I don't think you realize what you're implicating - is that the Holy Spirit is not omnipotent and cannot work through even the most flawed and corrupt human beings.

Even Pilate received his power from God, according to Jesus Christ Himself. Care to object?

393 posted on 09/09/2009 6:45:53 AM PDT by Rutles4Ever (Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia, et ubi ecclesia vita eterna!)
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