Posted on 09/24/2009 10:46:07 AM PDT by delacoert
Mighty big boast. I read your prophets saying otherwise
“[There is] no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, p. 190
"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are"
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 289
"For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men."
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 282
"He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ"
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 312
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, 1988, p. 142
But lets not stop there-
“And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven.…Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” —Alma 11:37
Please make note and post accordingly in the future brother niv. Otherwise, having been informed, you will be violating the 9th commandment.
I’m sorry that you have been deceived and taught lies. You are in terrible danger.
Elsie POSTED a LOT of stuff BEFORE this.
Got any comments about STATEMENTS that MORMON leaders have made over the years?
Would Christ’s true church exclude anyone from entering His temple unless they followed the rules set up by the MORMON hierarchy?
(One CANNOT find the 'RULES' in ANY writings that the MORMONs call 'scripture')
As a whole, Flds are more MORMON like, thean those who claim they are the ONLY one's with the RIGHT to call themselves MORMON.
Ha!
I had a '64 Dodge Dart that I put a couple of HEMI 426 emblems on!
This long deaD thread has RISEN from the DEAD!
(And Haitians believe in VOODOO and the UNdead!!!)
(Yeah, well, just read the headlines in the past several weeks about what those truly in Christ have suffered in Egypt & Northern Nigeria...and it's not just mere "door damage")
First of all, why would Adam need a "plan of salvation" if the most prestigious Mormon university is named after somebody who taught for over 25 years that "Adam is God???"
Secondly, do you want the short bubble-burster version as to why it's not possible for the Mormon "retro salvation" plan to work, or the longer version?
Well, here's both: Elsie said it in a simple nutshell about three months ago: Logically; this is IMPOSSIBLE, for all of the NAMES of these people are NOT accessable and will NEVER be accessable. THEREFORE; the MORMONic ritual of Baptism for the Dead is a definite FALSE teaching.
Here, was my longer version recaptured below...note especially what I've bold-faced:
Are you serious? You think pre-Gutenberg printed records will drop out of the sky, or be dug up etched in golden plates in Hill Cumorahs all over the world? You seriously think that the vast records of people in the Dark Ages and before the Dark Ages, down to their very birth name (required for Lds baptisms), will be found? (If not, then drop this silly idealism of "saving" whoever has ever lived!!! It's a false ideal part of a false hope of a false gospel. You & Lds leaders make this magnanimous appeal to "fairness" that ALL will have the opportunity to receive the gospel in the after-life, except Mormons then never seem to get around talking about the "fine print" of their claims & this legal obligation...* "uh, it's kind of dependent upon us finding all their birth records & such...you know B.C...early A.D....dark ages...unliterate people...etc. etc. etc.")
It’s a terrible discredit to label LDS with the ole “Believe as we or go to hell” stigma...
Lds believe that "...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel & have the opportunity to repent & accept ordinances for them that are performed." (True to the Faith, 2004, official Lds publication, p. 81)
Now what's wrong with this statement?
(1) It negates Hebrews 9:27 "For it is appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement"
(2) It creates a false sense of security for earthly man: "Oh, I can repent AFTER I die"
(3) In light of what I said above -- the vast majority of Dark Ages & before will never have their records found, how can the Lds church turn around and say this is MANDATED for EVERY spirit before they can be judged? Joseph Smith taught that "ALL those who have not had an opportunity of hearing the Gospel, and being administered unto by an inspired man in the flesh, MUST have it hereafter, BEFORE they can be finally judged. (Lds Presidents book on Smith, p. 471)
(4) Lds assume not only can they arrange eternal relationships with God and Jesus Christ post-death, but they can do marital match-making for the deceased. (Someone start the Halloween Morg music): "In the temple, we can perform ALL the ordinances necessary for the exaltation of those who have died. This includes temple marriage." (Official Lds teaching pub -- Gospel Principles, p. 248) [Yeah, all: Think of The Addams family performing ghoulish eternal wedding rituals for the dead]
(5) It treats mere men as "saviors". Citations from former lds "prophets":
...we are the only people that know how to save our progenitors, how to save ourselves, and how to save our posterity in the celestial kingdom of God;...we in fact are the saviours of the world..." (Lds "prophet" John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, vol.6, p.163).
"... mortals have to be saviors on Mount Zion, acting by proxy for the dead." (LDS "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 325)
"We know something about our progenitors, and God has taught us how to be saviors for them by being baptized for them in the flesh, that they may live according to God in the Spirit." (LDS "prophet" John Taylor, March 20,1870, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, 3/20/1870)
Let me ask you this Q: What would you say to the following statement: "As a whole, fLDS are more Mormon like, then those who claim they aren't. ???
Agree? (If not, why not?)
And in light of this, what do you think of this?
Sept. 8, 1998 airing of Larry King Live show:
KING: But when the word [polygamy] is mentioned, when you hear the word, you think Mormon, right?
HINCKLEY: You do it mistakenly. They have no connection to us whatsoever. They don't belong to the church. There are actually no Mormon fundamentalists.
So, there ya go. The Mormon "prophet"
speaking on behalf of the Mormon "god"
claiming that Mormon fundamentalists don't exist.
They are mere phantoms.
So. If Hinckley could say: "Fundamentalist Mormons are not Mormons." Then I'm not sure how anybody could get riled up -- without also getting riled up @ Hinckley -- about the statement, "Mormons are not Christians."
Lds "prophets" are not the only ones at liberty of establishing definitions and distinctions.
Their religion obviously isn’t big on ‘Turning the other cheek’.
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Especially if one family member leaves the LDS.
They are often shunned, including having their “bishops” encourage divorce if the spouse “apostatizes”.
The “exact same path” to salvation ?
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Yes. They all believe that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ alone by grace, through faith.
They all agree on the PERSON, WORK, and NATURE of Jesus Christ. The LDS do not.
Most of the differences are minor practical or organizational issues, not major doctrinal disagreements.
Please show me proof that God does not have a physical body.
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You OBVIOUSLY do not read Hebrew (or Greek), do you?
All of the verses the LDS use for God having a body in the OT, either are anthropomorphisms or refer to the Shekinah (shining glory of God).
And then there is always this verse from the mouth of Jesus.
“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24).
In the Greek, there is no article before spirit (pneuma), which emphasizes the quality. In English it would be an equivalent of a predicate nominative.
Furthermore, the word pneuma occurs first in the sentence which places an emphasis on it. God = Spirit, not ‘a’ spirit, or “has a spirit” (JST), He consists solely of spirit.
That long series of quotes does not prove they’re not Christian
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No, their doctrine proves that.
I do know they would not say Christ was conceived by a sexual act,
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Wrong. That is exactly was has been taught (and still is according to my LDS friends)...
Let me help you with your knowledge of LDS teachings. Here are several quotes by LDS leaders (as recent as ET Benson in the 1980’s)
Here is the statement of BY’s that JFS supports:
“When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven.” (JoD 1:50-51, also “Answers”, vol. 5, p. 121).
To illustrate more clearly that BY meant that Christ’s conception was actual physical sex, here is another of his statements: “The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD—was begotten
of his father, as we were of our fathers.” (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115).
Here are a few more quotes from the 1962 Gospel Doctrine Sunday School Lesson Manual “Gospel Living in the Home,” p. 16-17: “Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily OFFSPRING; that is to say, Elohim is LITERALLY the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the BODY in which Jesus Christ performed his mission in the flesh...” (as quoted from ‘The Articles of Faith’ by James E. Talmage, p. 466).
“We are told in the scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of God in the flesh....how are children begotten? I answer, just as Jesus was begotten of his Father. The Christian denominations believe that Christ was
begotten not of God, but of the spirit that overshadowed his mother. THIS IS NONSENSE. Why will they not believe the Father when He says that Jesus Christ is His Only Begotten Son? Why will they try to EXPLAIN THIS TRUTH AWAY and
make mystery of it?” (as quoted from Joseph F. Smith, ‘Box Elder Times,’ Sep. 22, 1914).
“When the time came that His first-born, the Saviour, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came himself and favored that Spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Saviour was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same being who is the Father of our spirits, AND THAT IS ALL THE ORGANIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JESUS CHRIST AND
YOU AND ME.” (as quoted from ‘Discourses of Brigham Young,” 1925 edition, p.
77).
“The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated in the capacity of husband and wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully........He had a lawful right to overshadow the Virgin Mary IN THE CAPACITY OF A HUSBAND, and beget a Son.......Whether God the Father gave Mary to Joseph for time only, or for time
and eternity, we are not informed. It may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in this mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity.” (Apostle Orson Pratt, “The Seer,” Oct. 1853, p. 158).
Pratt’s statement is supported by one from Brigham Young: “The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband.” (Deseret News, Oct. 10, 1866).
: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in THE MOST LITERAL SENSE. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was SIRED by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father.” (Teachings of ET Benson, p. 6).
“If none but gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives. God, the Father of our spirits, became the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. “(Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)
“I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 8:211)
Apostle and one of the best defenders of their errors was Bruce R. McConkie taught, “And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742).
How about Adam and Eve ?
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What about them? There is nothing in Genesis that states God has a body of flesh and bone.
Of course God is a spirit - so are you.
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No, GOD is a SPIRIT, we are mortal humans.
Not the same in the least.
else how could she still be a virgin - as is clearly stated ?
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By changing what “virgin” means.
When I was LDS, they taught that she REALLY wasn’t a virgin, that the word used meant she was only a “young woman of marriageable age”, thus not necessarily a physical virgin.
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