MORMONISM INSIDE~OUT Part 2: 22 Shocking FACTS the Mormon Church Does NOT Want YOU to Know!

Angelfire ^ | Darrick Evenson

[ejonesie22]

Amen.

[Elsie]

 

TRUTH IGNORED ?

 

 

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Smith, Young, Taylor, Pratt, Snow, Kimball, Woodruff ...

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 1 Timothy 3:2-3
 2.  Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
 3.  not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

 

 

1 Timothy 3:12
   A deacon must be the husband of but one wife and must manage his children and his household well.

 

 

 Titus 1:6
   An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

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BEHOLD!!!!  The Restorative Power  of the Book of Mormon!!

 

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THE BOOK OF JACOB
THE BROTHER OF NEPHI

CHAPTER 2

 

  24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
  25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
  26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
  27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
  28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
  29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
  30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
  31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
  32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.

 

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[Elsie]

Bah!

FAIRLDS has seen ALL these claims before and has the TRUTH above thime in THOUSANDS of words on their website!

Do NOT listen to an avowed ANTI who has presented ALL this stuff out-of-context!

My HEART has confirmed to me that the Book of MORMON is true and Joseph Smith is a PROPHET!

--MormonDude(But I still am a bit confused why NONE of our SACRED temple rituals and covenants and practices are NOT found in the BoM...)

[Elsie]

Probably could have just posted the last summary and link to the rest.

True; but WHY make folks DIG for the data when someone else has used their time and energy to do it for you?

[Elsie]

Hey, as long as they don’t strap bombs to mental little ones...

Well; if the Living Prophet® of the Mormon Church had a 'revelation' from GOD to do those things; I can assure you that things would be blowing up all over the place!

[Elsie]

Mormons who do good in their lives can expect to receive a favorable incarnation in the next life;

if they DO what their leaders SAY,

but NOT what their leaders DO.

 

 

Yup!! I defer to the Words of Wisdom from one of MORMONism's late Prophets:

 

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In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

 

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

[Elsie]

So, there is no reason to leave the Mormon Church as long as the Mormon strives to do MORE GOOD in their lives, to give more in Fast Offerings, less in Tithing, and to live the Golden Rule and practice "Pure Religion" as Jesus defined it.

KJV 2 Corinthians 6:14-18
14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15. And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16. And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

[Elsie]

 

You Mormon bigots really puzzle me.

 

I know EXACTLY how you feel!!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother, “I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

[Elsie]

Ask Joe Wilson...

Oh - and see the above reply.

[Elsie]

I wonder if he would apply that passion in investigating his religion.

I'll bet he will...

[Elsie]

So....Masons can't be Morman?

Huh?

I missed that part.

 

Do you want to know how to become a Freemason? Here is some basic information which should address the question: "How do I become a Mason?"

Freemasonry has its lodges throughout the free world. You'll find Masons meeting in almost every town and village and - except where repressive governments make their existence difficult - they're readily found. None of these lodges was ever organized as a result of any type of 'missionary' work: they came into existence because a group of Masons wanted to share the friendship and fraternity with others in the area.

What is SO often misunderstood is a simple fact: there are few but important requirements to become a Freemason!

While they are stated in slightly different words in various jurisdictions (and a few jurisdictions may have one or two requirements beyond these), they basically are as follows:

1. Being a man, freeborn, of good repute and well-recommended;

2. A belief in a Supreme Being;

3. Ability to support one's self and family;

4. Of lawful age; and

5. Come to Freemasonry of their "own free will and accord".

[Elsie]

Compare the claims made in “fact” 18 about what the book of mormon says, versus what the book of mormon says (it’s online).

Online; I am a buff hunk-o-man, smarter than your average bear and witty as all get out.

(And... you can beleive everything that I say about myself. Do NOT listen those those who seem to not love me completely.)

[Elsie]

Only ONE of those groups going to heaven, the rest to hell.

[Retired COB]

It was a long read, but I'm pretty sure that I read portions about anti-masons, etc.

I joined the Masons as an Entered Apprentice at Nippon #9 Lodge in Sasebo, Japan in 1969. My work was interrupted by an in-country tour in Viet Nam for all of 1970. Like a lot of things in life I always intendeded to get back into it but family interests and my Navy career interfered.

I was surprised by the agnst from the Mormans towards the Masons because in my experience both groups are good solid citizens (although my religious beliefs don't come close to the Morman Religion).

None of the Morman men I've been exposed to (with the noteable exception of Harry Reid) were wimps. Their religion obviously isn't big on 'Turning the other cheek'. Mine (Baptist) is, but you might say that I'm a 'Work in progress' along those lines. I'd be sure to have a good hold on the person slapping my cheek so that when they got done with the second slap they'd still be there for my turn.

[jimt]

Um, not to burst your bubble, but the historic apostolic faiths, Catholic as well as protestants such as the Methodist, Baptist, Episcopalians and others of that linage believe in the exact same path to salvation.

The "exact same path" to salvation ?

That's so patently false it's laughable. Catholics prohibit drinking alcohol ? Espiscopalians prohibit dancing ? Baptists pray to Mary to intercede for them ? Methodists believe in purgatory and Lutherans in predestination ?

I get so tired of the "Mormons aren't Christians" canard I could vomit. You can swallow all of the glaring differences between your "brothers and sisters" of the above faiths without a hiccup, yet have trouble acknowledging that the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints" is Christian ?

Truly swallowing camels while straining at gnats.

Don't take this personally - it's meant for all those who blare they have the true path while others are evil and going to hell.

[ejonesie22]

The path to salvation has nothing to do with dancing or drinking or whether we venerate Mary or not. Those are worldly disputes in method, little else.

I serve on several Ecumenical organizations with Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, Episcopalians, Methodist, the list goes on. We serve with the blessing of our various authorities and there are both lay people and clergy that serve along side each other.

By your reckoning we should be at each others throats, not at the dinner table enjoying good food and fellowship.

If there was the level of animosity and divergence you wish there to be such activity would be forbidden. It is not, indeed it is blessed and encouraged, so whilst you wish it to be fact that the apostolic and historic Christian faiths are incompatible, a wish is all that it is.

As far as being tired of hearing that Mormons are not Christian, two points.

First, the LDS themselves spent many years saying there were not "Christian", indeed that they were better than Christians, until the marketing advantage became apparent.

Secondly, the "christ" that the LDS represents is not the Christ of the Bible. The True Christ is not separate from the father, he was not conceived of by a sexual act, he is not one of several gods, and does not demand we work for our salvation but because of it. The true Christ does not intertwine himself with "gods" from other planets, does not share his authority on the path to heaven with any earthly "prophet" and he walked among us in a real world of places and peoples that truly existed and in many cases still exist today. Above all there is only God, who was never once a man like us and we will never be his equal, on this or any other planet.

If the facts make you nauseous I am sorry, and while I could suggest several medications for your condition, perhaps the truth would be a more permanent solution.

[Elsie]

I was surprised by the agnst from the Mormans towards the Masons...

compared to...

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Statements by Mormon Leaders about Christian churches (made by many of the LDS Prophet-Presidents):

 

Joseph Smith stated that God told him: "they [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).

 

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

 

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[Elsie]

I get so tired of the "Mormons aren't Christians" canard I could vomit.

Then get out yer barf bag!

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The Mormon Church Claims to be the Only True Church

Does Joseph Smith Jr. play a role in our salvation?

 

Joseph Fielding Smith said: [There is] "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190).

 

Brigham Young stated: "no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289).

 

Brigham Young also declared, "he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312).

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]" (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142).

 

 

Can salvation can come only through the LDS Church?

 

Mormon scriptures claim that the LDS church is "the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (Doctrine and Covenants, 1:30).

Joseph Smith stated: "This [the LDS] Church...is the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (Doctrine and Covenants 1:30).

President Ezra Taft Benson said: "This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..." (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165).

 

Bruce McConkie stated: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Mormon Doctrine, p.670).

 

Marion Romney (LDS First Presidency) said, "This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, pg. 119).

 

 

 

Statements by Mormon Leaders about Christian churches (made by many of the LDS Prophet-Presidents):

Joseph Smith stated that God told him: "they [other churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).

 

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

 

[delacoert]

I get so tired of the "Mormons aren't Christians" canard I could vomit.

The official position of the Assemblies of God Church on Mormonism is that Mormonism is not Christianity.

Mormonism is an original, invented religion, born of the mind of Joseph Smith, who is responsible for the spiritual seduction of millions of people. To the world, Mormonism sells itself as the friendly Christian church down the street, but in reality it is no closer to biblical Christianity than Hinduism or Islam.

[Scythian]

Mormonism is a cult, period, get over it folks, it is what it is, a cult.