Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Campion; NYer

Another view:

But whom say ye that I am? Peter answered, ‘Thou art the Christ, The Son of the living God.’ One for many gave the answer, Unity in many. Then said the Lord to him, ‘Blessed art thou, Simon Barjonas: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven.’ Then He added, ‘and I say unto thee.’ As if He had said, ‘Because thou hast said unto Me, “Thou art the Christ the Son of the living God;” I also say unto thee, “Thou art Peter.” ’ For before he was called Simon. Now this name of Peter was given him by the Lord, and in a figure, that he should signify the Church. For seeing that Christ is the rock (Petra), Peter is the Christian people. For the rock (Petra) is the original name. Therefore Peter is so called from the rock; not the rock from Peter; as Christ is not called Christ from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. ‘Therefore,’ he saith, ‘Thou art Peter; and upon this Rock’ which Thou hast confessed, upon this rock which Thou hast acknowledged, saying, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God, will I build My Church;’ that is upon Myself, the Son of the living God, ‘will I build My Church.’ I will build thee upon Myself, not Myself upon Thee.

For men who wished to be built upon men, said, ‘I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas,’ who is Peter. But others who did not wish to built upon Peter, but upon the Rock, said, ‘But I am of Christ.’ And when the Apostle Paul ascertained that he was chosen, and Christ despised, he said, ‘Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?’ And, as not in the name of Paul, so neither in the name of Peter; but in the name of Christ: that Peter might be built upon the Rock, not the Rock upon Peter. This same Peter therefore who had been by the Rock pronounced ‘blessed,’ bearing the figure of the Church (Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VI, St. Augustin, Sermon XXVI.1-4, pp. 340-341).

Or, if you prefer, the great church father...J. Vernon McGee:

“Who is the Rock? The Rock is Christ. The church is built upon Christ. We have Simon Peter’s own explanation of this. In 1 Peter 2:4, referring to Christ, he writes, [4As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, 5 you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house]. And he remembers Isaiah 28:16, [”Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”] - 1 Peter 2:6. The church is built upon Christ; he is the foundation. [11For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.] 1 Cor 3:11”


20 posted on 09/25/2009 6:07:13 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]


To: Mr Rogers; NYer
Thank you for your Scriptural response, as always, Mr R.

Why can't we all just state the obvious instead of going back and forth over this same issue time after time? Nyer and others post articles like these to try to prove that the Roman Catholic is the only true church. They trot out the Peter as rock and therefore the first pope dogma so that they can "prove" the apostolic succession to the current pope. By stating this, they can then say that whatever the popes have determined as doctrine through the ages, they can confidently accept as truth because Jesus gave the keys to Peter and his successors and they are infallible.

I highly doubt most protestant theologians have accepted this as true, because there are many doctrines the RCC has decreed that are NOT scriptural and even contradict Scripture. When called on this, they fall back on the easy answer of that's your interpretation and the Catholic Church GAVE you the Bible nonsense. What is the point?

24 posted on 09/25/2009 6:44:01 PM PDT by boatbums (Not everything faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed unless it is faced.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies ]

To: Mr Rogers; Campion; NYer

“St. Augustin, Sermon XXVI.1-4,”

Very good, Mr. R. As we know, Blessed Augustine, along with virtually all the other Fathers, save perhaps for +Jerome, were quite consistent on their definition of The Rock and it was not the person of +Peter. The notion that +Peter was the Rock was popularized by +Pope Gregory and +Pope Leo the Great for their own purposes.


25 posted on 09/25/2009 6:47:04 PM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies ]

To: Mr Rogers; Yudan; Kolokotronis
Ah, Yudan, never mind, I think Mr Rogers posted the passage you were probably talking about.

Actually, Mr Rogers, Augustine tended to wax allegorical and offer sometimes competing explanations of passages. He said this also:

"Let us not listen to those who deny that the Church of God is able to forgive all sins. They are wretched indeed, because they do not recognize in Peter the rock and they refuse to believe that the keys of heaven, lost from their own hands, have been given to the Church." Christian Combat, 31:33(A.D. 397), in JUR,3:51
And later in life he even acknowledged that he had offered competing explanations of this passage:

"[In my first book against Donatus] I mentioned somewhere with reference to the apostle Peter that 'the Church is founded upon him as upon a rock.' This meaning is also sung by many lips in the lines of blessed Ambrose, where, speaking of the domestic cock, he says: 'When it crows, he, the rock of the Church, absolves from sin.' But I realize that I have since frequently explained the words of our Lord: 'Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church', to the effect that they should be understood as referring to him Peter confessed when he said: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God', and as meaning that Peter having been named after this rock, figured the person of the Church, which is built upon this rock and has received the keys of the kingdom of heaven. For what was said to him was not 'Thou art rock', but 'Thou art Peter'. But the rock was Christ, having confessed whom(even as the whole Church confesses) Simon was named Peter. Which of these interpretations is more likely to be correct, let the reader choose."
Let the reader choose. This is why I don't think that exegetes can exclude Peter himself or Peter's Confession or even Christ from consideration as the "Rock" here. Granted, I think Augustine's second explanation is a little tortured and mangles the grammatical force of the passage in pursuit of a dubious allegory, but then again he's St. Augustine and I'm not. :)
34 posted on 09/25/2009 7:14:19 PM PDT by Claud
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson