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To: MarkBsnr

>All I ask is for one scripture where Jesus plainly wills Peter to be His steward.<

That Peter was the initial leader of the apostles and church early church in Jerusalem, (Acts 5) and who overall exercised a pastoral office (1Pt. 1:1) should not be a matter of dispute. Rather, it is the type and degree and perpetuity of that office that is at dispute. Peter is manifest as a brethren type leader, and is not presented or declared to be a supreme, singular infallible head, nor venerated as a type of demi-god, which Rome has essentially and historically made his supposed successors. And most critically, no formal provision is given in the New Testament for that particular office to be perpetuated, such as is seen in the Old Testament, with only elder/bishops (same office: Titus 1:5-7, the division between the two was a later development) and deacons being ordained.

Apostles and prophets were the foundation of the church, (Eph. 2:20) and were sovereignly called by God. In regards to the former, in addition to being men who saw the LORD, their worthiness of that title was by manifest powerful supernatural attestation, in addition to their purity and Scriptural probity. (2Cor. 4:2; 6:1-10; 12:12)

Rather than the establishment of a perpetuation of a supreme head being manifestly established or expected, what we do see is the ordination of men like Timothy, (1Tim. 4:14) and the LORD building his church using such “stones”, who like Peter, effectually confess who Christ is, and faith in Him according to the apostolic gospel of the grace of God.


77 posted on 09/26/2009 4:28:03 PM PDT by daniel1212 ( For the transgression of a land many are the princes thereof: - Prv. 28:2)
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To: daniel1212

***That Peter was the initial leader of the apostles and church early church in Jerusalem, (Acts 5) and who overall exercised a pastoral office (1Pt. 1:1) should not be a matter of dispute. Rather, it is the type and degree and perpetuity of that office that is at dispute. ***

The perceptions of non Catholics may be a tad off from the reality of the office.

***Peter is manifest as a brethren type leader, and is not presented or declared to be a supreme, singular infallible head, nor venerated as a type of demi-god, which Rome has essentially and historically made his supposed successors. ***

That is not the papal office as it has been created or occupied.

***And most critically, no formal provision is given in the New Testament for that particular office to be perpetuated, such as is seen in the Old Testament, with only elder/bishops (same office: Titus 1:5-7, the division between the two was a later development) and deacons being ordained.***

If the office was created, it needed to be perpetuated. Other non Scriptural writings give evidence to that fact. But even on the face of it; leadership is required in any human institution. And the Church, although the earthly Creation of Jesus, is still an institution of men.

***Rather than the establishment of a perpetuation of a supreme head being manifestly established or expected, what we do see is the ordination of men like Timothy, (1Tim. 4:14) and the LORD building his church using such “stones”, who like Peter, effectually confess who Christ is, and faith in Him according to the apostolic gospel of the grace of God.***

The only supreme head that the Catholic Church recognizes is Jesus Christ. Individual men, according to their abilities and their performance, fill their posts within the Church. Nobody thinks of the Pope as God, except perhaps those who do not understand the Church.


79 posted on 09/26/2009 4:58:28 PM PDT by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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