Posted on 10/07/2009 4:59:44 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
Thanks — and is there any basis for modern day ethnic groups to complain that their ethnicity is being “dominated” by another? Mainly Greek — apologies for any offense, but Greek culture, language and history has overwhelmed many cultures from ancient times until even the present day.
“Thanks — and is there any basis for modern day ethnic groups to complain that their ethnicity is being “dominated” by another?”
Whether there is a basis or not, it happens all the time. The situation of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem springs to mind.
“Mainly Greek — apologies for any offense, but Greek culture, language and history has overwhelmed many cultures from ancient times until even the present day.”
No offense taken. Hellenism has been the great civilizing force for Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. To the extent that Hellenism has been abandoned, by the later Mohammedans and certainly today by secularizing forces throughout the world, we’ve had trouble. +BXVI himself has written about this.
Now, plain old Greekiness never accomplished much of anything except perhaps some good food.
To the extent that Hellenism is rejected, the concept of the Christian Oecoumene and the Christian omogenia likewise are diminished in favor of parochial ethnic identifications which can, and have and do take on a greater importance than the Faith itself and as experience teaches us, can lead to violence. That’s why ethnophyletism is considered a heresy.
If the concepts of Oecoumene and omogenia are inculcated in an individual Christian, then it is not surprising for that Christian to find that he or she has more in common, at base, with say, a faithful Levantine or Ethiopian Christian than with the Baptist neighbor down the street. Conversely, that same Christian likely will have nothing at all in common, save perhaps for a love of souvlakia, with the life long Greek Orthodoxer who shows up at the parish twice a year, on Pascha (long enough to get the “Phos”)and March 25th, Greek Independance Day!
His reply was honest and two fold.
A) The Greeks were wiling to accept martyrdom and humiliations more easily at the hands of the Muslims who ruled over them (and that the Muslims would not allow Christian education but in some places like mainland Greece the Muslims were not so numerous on the ground to be able to suppress Christian education so readily).
Part B) is controversial he told me because few Christian Orthodox would admit it openly in this age of nationalism but for the Orthodox Christians of the Middle East still view themselves still as Rhomaioi ("Romans") and the Greek connection reminds them of their shared Romiosini since being "Roman" in the east meant being culturally and linguistically Greek (and Orthodox Christian) and importing Greek clergy reminds them of that Roman legacy.
“Part B) is controversial he told me because few Christian Orthodox would admit it openly in this age of nationalism but for the Orthodox Christians of the Middle East still view themselves still as Rhomaioi (”Romans”) and the Greek connection reminds them of their shared Romiosini since being “Roman” in the east meant being culturally and linguistically Greek (and Orthodox Christian) and importing Greek clergy reminds them of that Roman legacy.”
Nikas is correct. Some years back, a Palestinian delegation visited our town. The Orthodox community was invited to a reception for them. I had the exact same conversation with an Orthodox Christian woman from Ramallah and several similar conversations, absent the Greek priest business, with a number of the Mohammedans in the group. Many of these people view themselves, as you say, as Rhomaioi, quite literally and all of them self identified as “Hellenes”.
The Arab Christian I spoke to did not view himself as an ethnic Greek - he knew some Greek from Church - but he self identified as a Rhomaios aka a "Roman" though is ancestors probably spoke Greek before the Arabs came. I am assuming the Orthodox Christians of the Holy Land were a composite of Hellenized Jews who accepted Christ and gentile settlers like Greeks and Roman colonists. Orthodox Christians in the Middle East were called either Greeks or Romans (as a cultural+religious name not an ethnic identifier) by the Muslim Arabs and Turks until recently.
“The Arab Christian I spoke to did not view himself as an ethnic Greek....”
They were using the term to denote “citizenship” in an Hellenic culture, not as an ethnic designation.
“Orthodox Christians in the Middle East were called either Greeks or Romans (as a cultural+religious name not an ethnic identifier) by the Muslim Arabs and Turks until recently.”
And what do the Turks call the Ecumenical Patriarchate to this day? The “Rum Patrikhanesi”
Oh, I see. I guess Greek and Roman is interchangeable in that part of the world.
Quite interesting! Thanks for sharing
“Oh, I see. I guess Greek and Roman is interchangeable in that part of the world.”
No, not “Greek”, “Hellene”, as in people who come from an Hellenic culture.
Ukraine should treat Russians the way Georgians are treated in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
The Russian “church” supports the Russian government and it supports the Russian invaders’ activities in Georgia, therefore the Russian “church” supports the schismatics, just like the Russian government does. They will pay for this.
“The Russian “church” supports the Russian government and it supports the Russian invaders’ activities in Georgia, therefore the Russian “church” supports the schismatics, just like the Russian government does.”
Who told you this? Is someone validating your hatred of Orthodox Christianity or are you simply making things up?
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