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Mary is the star that guides us to holiness, says Holy Father during Angelus [Catholic Caucus]
cna ^ | October 11, 2009

Posted on 10/11/2009 2:08:20 PM PDT by NYer

Vatican City, Oct 11, 2009 / 11:27 am (CNA).- Presiding over the Sunday Angelus prayer following the canonization Mass for five new saints, Pope Benedict XVI stressed that "the Virgin Mary is the star that guides" every area of holiness."

In several languages, the Pope thanked the faithful from all around the world who were in attendance at the Mass of canonization. He also remarked that Mary’s fiat – her "yes" - makes her a "model of perfect adherence to the divine will."

The Holy Father then greeted the English-speaking pilgrims present for the canonization. "May these new saints accompany you with their prayers and inspire you by the example of their holy lives."

He also addressed "a group of survivors of the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki," and prayed "that the world may never again witness such mass destruction of innocent human life."

"May God bless all of you, as well as your families and loved ones at home."

Finally, the Pope encouraged everyone present to look at "the Mother of Christ with filial trust, asking for her intercession and that of the new saints" for the Church to bring "peace and salvation."


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Ministry/Outreach; Prayer
KEYWORDS: angelus; catholic
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1 posted on 10/11/2009 2:08:20 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Pope Benedict XVI, in background at left, gestures to the faithful during a canonization ceremony at the Vatican Sunday, Oct. 11, 2009. the pontiff gave the Roman Catholic church five new saints Sunday, including Father Damien, born as Jozef De Veuster in 1840, a Roman Catholic priest from Belgium who cared for leprosy victims on the Hawaiian island of Molokai from 1873 to 1889, when the disease killed him. The other new Saints are 19th century polish bishop Zygmunt Szczesny Felinski; Spanish faithful Francisco Coll y Guitart and Rafael Arniaz Baron, and Jeanne Jugan, a Frenchwoman described by Vatican Radio as an 'authentic Mother Teresa ahead of her time.'

The Holy Father delivered his homily in the various languages of the newly canonized saints.

2 posted on 10/11/2009 2:09:44 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: NYer

Wow ... what a mixed metaphor.


3 posted on 10/11/2009 2:10:19 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: spacejunkie01

But Our Blessed Mother gave us Christ as Lord and Savior. I don’t see how you can diss her at all.

Do you have any religious sources for your statements?


5 posted on 10/11/2009 2:20:08 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer
Mary Star of Evangelization

Mary, Star of Evangelization
Written by Brother Claude Lane, OSB – Spring 2003
Commissioned by the Archdiocese of Portland
Blessed and received by Archbishop John G. Vlazny – April 7, 2003
© 2003,  Mt. Angel Abbey, St. Benedict, Oregon 97373

Icon: Mary, Star of Evangelization

 

Mary, Star of Evangelization

Written by Brother Claude Lane, OSB – Spring 2003
Commissioned by the Archdiocese of Portland
Blessed and received by Archbishop John G. Vlazny – April 7, 2003

An icon is written, because in the earliest days of the Church, the word used to write and to create an image was the same. One used the pen and the brush to convey an important message. Tradition says St. Luke, who wrote his Gospel and the Acts of the Apostles, also wrote icons.

In the icon of Mary, Star of Evangelization, we see three dominate images Mary, the Star of Bethlehem and the almond shaped background. As one contemplates the icon consider the image from three hills or three levels:
 

· The image is rooted in scripture. In the Gospel of St. Luke, Mary, pregnant with Our Lord “rises and goes to the hill country” (Luke 1:39) to visit her kinswoman Elizabeth. This is the first evangelization journey. Mary brings the Word of God, flesh incarnate, to her cousin. Elizabeth is pregnant with John the Baptist, the one who goes before him.

· Mary comes to the new world as Our Lady of Guadalupe and appears on the hill at Tepejac to St. Juan Diego, a member of the indigenous people. This appearance is truly a sign of evangelization in the Americas.  It was one of the most incredible conversions in the church.  The conversion of the whole country of Mexico began after her apparition in 1531.

· Mary, daughter of Zion - out of Zion will come forth blessing and refreshment. God’s Word will come from the hill of Zion.


Iconographers tell their story through color. The colors in our icon offer us insight into Mary, the Star of Evangelization. Traditionally icons clothe Mary in a mulberry, dark red outer garment.  That color is not used here, nor is she wearing dark blue. Instead Mary’s garment is a turquoise green. God chose this garment color when He made her appear on the cloak of Guadalupe.  In iconography turquoise green is the color of the Holy Spirit, so Mary is veiled in the Holy Spirit. When you look at Andrie Rublev’s fifteenth century icon of the three persons of the Trinity, the three visitors to Abraham and Sarah, the Holy Spirit on the right hand side is wearing a kind of a green color. Mary is conceived of the Holy Spirit and she conceived the Lord by the Holy Spirit. Mary, pregnant with Jesus, goes to Elizabeth wearing the color of the Spirit. The garment underneath is sort of rose in color, not necessarily red. The rose color is used by Rublev to identify God the Father.  So Mary, daughter of Zion, also puts on the color of God the Father.

The “mandola” is the almond shape in the background. This symbolizes the rending of two realities - the spiritual and the corporal- and opens up the heavenly realm.  It literally is pulling apart. You can also think of it as two spheres or two worlds coming together. You have the shape of the almond created before they are completely merged. In this view the spiritual and the material or corporal realms are coming together. We are witnessing this vision or coming together.  We are able to see Mary because of a certain kind of rending of the invisible world.  The background is dark because it represents the uncreated light and the spiritual light that is in the invisible world. The spiritual light is so bright that it is not really perceivable to our eyes – to us it would be darkness – we just don’t see anything.  Ordinarily we don’t see this realm, as it comes closer to us it becomes lighter and lighter, therefore the gradations of color from dark to light. Through Mary’s intercession the uncreated light is becoming visible to our eyes.

Finally, the writer identifies Mary with Greek letters in the upper left and right. The title used in all traditional Marian icons is Mary, Mother of God

Brother Claude Lane, OSB, the icon’s writer, summarizes the image, “there are the three apparitions of Mary – three visitations of Mary – this is a visitation icon.  She visits her cousin, she visits the people of America in an actual apparition, and now she is visiting us. The daughter of Zion is made visible.” Mary, Star of Evangelization, becomes a visible model for us as the Archdiocese and other members of the Church strive to become more complete Disciples in Mission.

6 posted on 10/11/2009 2:26:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: spacejunkie01; knarf; NYer

"Never apologize for the

Blessed Virgin Mary!"

~~Mother Angelica


8 posted on 10/11/2009 2:29:00 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: spacejunkie01

We have told many of you many times that Catholics do NOT pray “To” Mary.

We ask her to intercede for us, just like the story that is told about Jesus’ Manifestation of His Powers at the Wedding of Cana.

Mary’s words then — the first evangelizer, BTW — were “Do whatever he tells you.”

She says the same thing to us today.

Christ is most important in the Catholic faith.

Would you please disclose where you are receiving this faulty information? Whose authority?


10 posted on 10/11/2009 2:32:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: spacejunkie01
I believe we are asked in the bible to pray for ourselves and each other. We ask Mary and the saints to pray for us just as you would ask someone to pray for you. We believe they are in heaven and have the ear of the Lord, so why would we not ask them to bug Him a little for us. Makes perfect sense to me. I don't understand why anyone wouldn't ask. It never hurts to ask as many people as we can to intercede for us. Give it a try, you may be surprised at how much they can help. in⋅ter⋅ces⋅sion 1. an act or instance of interceding 2. an interposing or pleading on behalf of another person. 3. a prayer to God on behalf of another. 4. Roman History. the interposing of a veto, as by a tribune.
12 posted on 10/11/2009 2:35:53 PM PDT by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: Salvation

“We ask her to intercede for us, just like the story that is told about Jesus’ Manifestation of His Powers at the Wedding of Cana”

God is our Father and we are his Children. Naturally we screw up. The Catholic Church is called the Holy Mother Church because She serves as a way to remind God, right before he brings the punishment on, that we are only kids and he doesn’t need to be as hard on us as He might think.


13 posted on 10/11/2009 2:37:41 PM PDT by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: spacejunkie01
His Holiness wasn't calling Mary a literal star. It was a metaphor and a reference to the star that guided the magi to the Nativity.
16 posted on 10/11/2009 2:44:51 PM PDT by Rodebrecht (Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.)
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To: TexasKate

So have you read the story of the Wedding of Cana — where Mary tells us to “Do whatever He tells you?”

And if Christ tells me to honor His Mother, which He does, I will do that!


17 posted on 10/11/2009 2:45:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: spacejunkie01

**All of us who believe in Jesus Christ are saints.**

Not yet. That doesn’t happen until the moment you die.


18 posted on 10/11/2009 2:45:59 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer
Hawaii has it's first Saint. Father Damien who risked his life and died from leprosy dedicating his work to the Lepers of Kalaupapa Molokai. Several from here went to the ceremony at the Vatican. Big news in todays papers throughout all of Hawaii.
19 posted on 10/11/2009 2:47:57 PM PDT by fish hawk (Lord, help us to attain knowledge and the wisdom to apply it toward your ultimate will.)
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To: All

Quit trying to convert Salvation back to Protestantism


23 posted on 10/11/2009 2:58:56 PM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: spacejunkie01

This is a caucus thread.


24 posted on 10/11/2009 3:01:13 PM PDT by OpusatFR (Those embryos are little humans in progress. Using them for profit is slavery.)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: spacejunkie01
I guess I don't have a problem believing that those who die in God's Grace are in heaven. If you remember right, Jesus was seen speaking to Elijah and Moses who were dead, not to mention He told the good thief, "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Doesn't sound like he was put in a lock box until Jesus was to return. Well, not to me anyway.

"praying for a dead person is not only fruitless, it is against God’s will"

Boy you must be looking for a good fight today. Now you must be asking about purgatory. Well, I can argue about that if you would like, but first why don't you do a little research on the subject yourself, using a completed bible. Not a bible that has been rewritten for some persons religious preference. A bible that has been the same for about 1700 years. You will be amazed at what you will find in there, especially on the subject of praying for those who have died. You might do well by reading 2 Maccabees 12:44-46.
26 posted on 10/11/2009 3:08:36 PM PDT by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid
I don't understand why anyone wouldn't ask. It never hurts to ask as many people as we can to intercede for us.

Maybe because God tells us differently. How about doing what we are told to do! Our ways are not God's ways. Not doing as HE commanded is disobedience! God didn't ask us what we think, He commanded us to obey!

Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, Who also maketh intercession for us.

Heb 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me..

The Bible says, "If we ask anything according to God's will, HE hears us. And if we know that HR hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the request which we have asked from Him."
31 posted on 10/11/2009 3:23:10 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: spacejunkie01
Understanding the Bible will give you the same understanding I have.

Logically it follows that anyone who disagrees with you does not understand the Bible.

And what makes that interesting is that we already knew (a) that you disagreed with us and (b) that you thought you were right. So this statement is nothing more than another way of saying there's a disagreement.

Okay. No argument there.

32 posted on 10/11/2009 3:28:05 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: presently no screen name
Not only does no single one of your quotes command us NOT to ask others to intercede for us, but elsewhere we are told to intercede for others, while if you were correct that the intercessions of anyone save Christ were ineffective Paul would just tell us to tell others to pray to Jesus for themselves.

Do you pray for others?

I know of no one who prays the Rosary or makes other prayers to Mary who thinks that anyone comes to the Father except by Jesus. I pray the Rosary almost daily. I think that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus.

So the "Way the Truth and the Life" saying doesn't seem relevant to our practice or beliefs.

33 posted on 10/11/2009 3:43:39 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: spacejunkie01
I guess in your bible it doesn't, but my bible, the one preserved and protected by the church for 1700 years, it states that is something we should do. All Christians belong to the Body of Christ and the body of Christ is not dead, so those Christians who have died are not dead, but alive in Christ.

2 Maccabees 12:43-46:
43 He then took up a collection among all his soldiers, amounting to two thousand silver drachmas, which he sent to Jerusalem to provide for an expiatory sacrifice. In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, inasmuch as he had the resurrection of the dead in view; 44 for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. 45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who had gone to rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. 46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from this sin.


I guess it all depends on who's authority you trust. Do you rely on the private judgment of Luther, who also wanted to throw out Ester, James and Revelation and didn't have a problem with adding a word or two if it suited his purpose, or do you accept the divinely protected judgment of the Catholic Church who used her authority around 1700 years ago to determine the official canon of the Bible. This is the same Bible (less the 7 books) used by Protestants to attack the very authority of the Church who gave it to them.

If you want to get technical and everything.
34 posted on 10/11/2009 3:47:12 PM PDT by JPII Be Not Afraid
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: presently no screen name

What do you tell people who ask you to pray for them? Do you tell them to make the direct prayer themselves, because God only wants to hear from the one needing the prayer. What a shame, because we are asked to pray for our brothers and sisters in Christ.


36 posted on 10/11/2009 3:54:29 PM PDT by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: spacejunkie01
Prove to me the Bible tells us to pray to the dead.

I call foul.

In post #7 you said:
All the dead are still dead until Jesus Christ’s return.
JPII Be Not Afraid argued, from Scripture no less, against THAT proposition. So instead of EITHER dealing with that question - which, if you had proved it would effectively damage our case OR admitting that maybe your case on that topic wasn't as strong as you made it out to be, you switch to another proposition: whether the Bible says to pray for the dead, forbids it, or is silent.

What is the point here? Is it to take a bunch of scattered incoherent shots at our doctrine or to examine it, understand what we really teach and believe and why, and then and only then argue against it?

In addition, while you are wringing your hands with eager (if premature) condemnation of our alleged pagan ways and thought, you might also consider that we think that Bible has more books in the OT than most Protestants think AND we "argue from Scripture" in a different way from many Protestants because we don't hold with "sola Scriptura."

Finally, to come into a discussion, say, more or less "I think you are wrong, pagan, cult-y and generally icky," and then insist that we prove we aren't is going to garner, I'd bet, more laughter than discussion.

37 posted on 10/11/2009 3:56:40 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: OpusatFR
Wow. I didn't notice, myself! I will be silent then against the mockers.

I would like to know more about the other guys the Pope canonized. I mean other than Fr. Damian.

38 posted on 10/11/2009 3:58:24 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

J2P2: we’re messing up. This is a Caucus thread. We don’t have to engage these targets.


39 posted on 10/11/2009 3:59:20 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: TexasKate

“Well I’m a Lutheran...”

Exactly. And that is what’s wrong with your belief.


40 posted on 10/11/2009 4:00:19 PM PDT by OpusatFR (Those embryos are little humans in progress. Using them for profit is slavery.)
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To: spacejunkie01; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
I guess Catholics aren’t Christians since this isn’t AT ALL what the Bible says.
Really, what exactly are you struggling with?
41 posted on 10/11/2009 4:00:54 PM PDT by narses ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own.")
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To: TexasKate
Do you believe in reading the Religion Forum guidelines on Caucus threads?
42 posted on 10/11/2009 4:01:00 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: narses

Don’t engage! Stand down! This is a Caucus thread, and these targets shouldn’t be here. I’m afraid if we continue to engage we will lose caucus status.


43 posted on 10/11/2009 4:02:18 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin: pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: NYer

Why is there such argument from non-Catholics on a CAUCUS THREAD???

I don’t even read religion threads anymore, that aren’t caucus, because it’s the same old arguments getting nowhere with people who have NO RESPECT for Religion Forum rules.

And now, THIS protestant evangelization on a caucus thread.


44 posted on 10/11/2009 4:03:59 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Drill in the USA and offshore USA!! Drill NOW and build more refineries!!!! Defund the EPA!)
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To: Mad Dawg

“I will be silent then against the mockers.”

I can’t help myself sometimes. Against, the mockers, well, I’ve given up. Trying to deal with them in charity is beyond my abilities and I do so hate to go to confession and tell Christ, once again, I’ve failed again.


45 posted on 10/11/2009 4:04:27 PM PDT by OpusatFR (Those embryos are little humans in progress. Using them for profit is slavery.)
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To: spacejunkie01

This is a CAUCUS THREAD.


46 posted on 10/11/2009 4:04:54 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Drill in the USA and offshore USA!! Drill NOW and build more refineries!!!! Defund the EPA!)
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To: spacejunkie01; TexasKate

“It is a sad commentary that so many Catholics don’t understand the bible.”

Sad? What is sad is your inability to understand even something as simple as the CAUCUS label on this thread. Or something more abstract called THE COMMUNION OF THE SAINTS, part of the Christian Creed and fully suported by the very Words of Our Lord in the very Holy Bible that the Catholic Church assembled out of the writings of the Bishops of the Catholic Church appointed by God to do just that. Sad that hatred, bigotry and ignorance is so often on display even here.


47 posted on 10/11/2009 4:07:44 PM PDT by narses ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own.")
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To: spacejunkie01
Please Spacejunkie, open your heart a bit.

Have you never wondered what this verse means? Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

WHAT Elementary Things????????? Someone fill me in! I re-read Hebrews and I discover that by the time of this writing, the Hebrew and Greek Followers of Jesus Christ know something they aren't putting in writing because "everyone alive then" knew the "elementary things."

WHO or What entity protected these Elementary Things for those who follow Christ in ages to come??? Where are the Elementary Things written down?

SpaceJunkie . . . they're kept in The Church. The Church which was formed in the Upper Room when Christ Jesus breathed on those there (the 12 plus the women and the 120 followers -- minus Judas). And like it or not, The Universal Church is the Holy Roman Catholic Church (including the 'other lung' The Orthodox Church).

I was brought up Lutheran, went to Parochial School, married a Lutheran Pastor. As a 28 year old, after divorcing the skirt chaser, I went on a Journey to find the Church which holds the Elementary Things mentioned in Hebrews. I ended up in Rome, with Peter. The Church holds the Keys to the Elementary Things . . . . Hallelujah and Amen.

These passages list the Bible Verses, you can check them out yourself.

Salvation:
(Greek soteria; Hebrew yeshu'ah).

Salvation has in Scriptural language the general meaning of liberation from straitened circumstances or from other evils, and of a translation into a state of freedom and security (1 Samuel 11:13; 14:45; 2 Samuel 23:10; 2 Kings 13:17). At times it expresses God's help against Israel's enemies, at other times, the Divine blessing bestowed on the produce of the soil (Isaiah 45:8). As sin is the greatest evil, being the root and source of all evil, Sacred Scripture uses the word "salvation" mainly in the sense of liberation of the human race or of individual man from sin and its consequences. We shall first consider the salvation of the human race, and then salvation as it is verified in the individual man Read the rest here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13407a.htm

Christ as Mediator:

A mediator is one who brings estranged parties to an amicable agreement. In New Testament theology the term invariably implies that the estranged beings are God and man, and it is appropriated to Christ, the One Mediator. When special friends of God — angels, saints, holy men — plead our cause before God, they mediate "with Christ"; their mediation is only secondary and is better called intercession. Moses, howover, is the proper mediator of the Old Testament (Galatians 3:19-20).



Christ's saving work did not at once blot out every individual sin and transform every sinner into a saint, it only procured the means thereto. Personal sanctification is effected the special acts, partly Divine, partly human; it is secured by loving God, and man as the Saviour did. Christianus alter Christus: every Christian is another Christ, a son of God, an heir to the eternal Kingdom. Finally, in the fulness of time all things that are in heaven and on earth shall be re-established, restored, in God through Christ (Ephesians 1:9-10). The meaning of the promise is that the whole of creation, bound up together and perfected in christ as its Head, shall be led back in the most perfect manner to God, from whom sin had partly led it away. Christ is the Crown the Centre, and the Fountain of a new and higher order of things: "for all are yours; And you are Christ's; and Christ is God's." (1 Corinthians 3:22-23). Read the rest: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10118a.htm

The Blessed Virgin Mary:

The Blessed Virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, the mother of God.

In general, the theology and history of Mary the Mother of God follow the chronological order of their respective sources, i.e. the Old Testament, the New Testament, the early Christian and Jewish witnesses.

The Old Testament refers to Our Blessed Lady both in its prophecies and its types or figures.



In order to be sure of the typical sense, it must be revealed, i.e. it must come down to us through Scripture or tradition. Individual pious writers have developed copious analogies between certain data of the Old Testament and corresponding data of the New; however ingenious these developments may be, they do not prove that God really intended to convey the corresponding truths in the inspired text of the Old Testament. On the other hand, it must be kept in mind that not all truths contained in either Scripture or tradition have been explicitly proposed to the faithful as matters of belief by the explicit definition of the Church.



Mary in the Gospels

The reader of the Gospels is at first surprised to find so little about Mary; but this obscurity of Mary in the Gospels has been studied at length by Blessed Peter Canisius [17], Auguste Nicolas [18], Cardinal Newman [19], and Very Rev. J. Spencer Northcote [20]. In the commentary on the "Magnificat", published 1518, even Luther expresses the belief that the Gospels praise Mary sufficiently by calling her (eight times) the Mother of Jesus. In the following paragraphs we shall briefly group together what we know of Our Blessed Lady's life before the birth of her Divine Son, during the hidden life of Our Lord, during His public life and after His resurrection.



Mary's Divine motherhood is based on the teaching of the Gospels, on the writings of the Fathers, and on the express definition of the Church. St. Matthew (1:25) testifies that Mary "brought forth her first-born son" and that He was called Jesus. According to St. John (1:15) Jesus is the Word made flesh, the Word Who assumed human nature in the womb of Mary. As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. Even the earliest Fathers did not hesitate to draw this conclusion as may be seen in the writings of St. Ignatius [72], St. Irenaeus [73], and Tertullian [74]. The contention of Nestorius denying to Mary the title "Mother of God" [75] was followed by the teaching of the Council of Ephesus proclaiming Mary to be Theotokos in the true sense of the word. [76]



No one will suspect the early Christians of idolatry, as if they had paid supreme worship to Mary's pictures or name; but how are we to explain the phenomena enumerated, unless we suppose that the early Christians venerated Mary in a special way? [144]

Nor can this veneration be said to be a corruption introduced in later times. It has been seen that the earliest picture dates from the beginning of the second century, so that within the first fifty years after the death of St. John the veneration of Mary is proved to have flourished in the Church of Rome. Early writings

For the attitude of the Churches of Asia Minor and of Lyons we may appeal to the words of St. Irenaeus, a pupil of St. John's disciple Polycarp [145]; he calls Mary our most eminent advocate. St. Ignatius of Antioch, part of whose life reached back into apostolic times, wrote to the Ephesians (c. 18-19) in such a way as to connect the mysteries of Our Lord's life more closely with those of the Virgin Mary. For instance, the virginity of Mary, and her childbirth, are enumerated with Christ's death, as forming three mysteries unknown to the devil. The sub-apostolic author of the Epistle to Diognetus, writing to a pagan inquirer concerning the Christian mysteries, describes Mary as the great antithesis of Eve, and this idea of Our Lady occurs repeatedly in other writers even before the Council of Ephesus. We have repeatedly appealed to the words of St. Justin and Tertullian, both of whom wrote before the end of the second century.

As it is admitted that the praises of Mary grow with the growth of the Christian community, we may conclude in brief that the veneration of and devotion to Mary began even in the time of the Apostles.

More information here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

Devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary:

Devotion to Our Blessed Lady in its ultimate analysis must be regarded as a practical application of the doctrine of the Communion of Saints. Seeing that this doctrine is not contained, at least explicitly in the earlier forms of the Apostles' Creed, there is perhaps no ground for surprise if we do not meet with any clear traces of the cultus of the Blessed Virgin in the first Christian centuries. The earliest unmistakable examples of the "worship" — we use the word of course in the relative sense — of the saints is connected with the veneration paid to the martyrs who gave their lives for the Faith. From the first century onwards, martyrdom was regarded as the surest sign of election. The martyrs, it was held, passed immediately into the presence of God. Over their tombs the Holy Sacrifice was offered (a practice which may possibly be alluded to in Revelation 6:9) while in the contemporary narrative of the martyrdom of St. Polycarp (c. 151) we have already mention of the "birthday", i.e. the annual commemoration, which the Christians might be expected to keep in his honour. This attitude of mind becomes still more explicit in Tertullian and St. Cyprian, and the stress laid upon the "satisfactory" character of the sufferings of the martyrs, emphasizing the view that by their death they could obtain graces and blessings for others, naturally and immediately led to their direct invocation.



The existence of the obscure sect of the Collyridians, whom St. Epiphanius (d. 403) denounces for their sacrificial offering of cakes to Mary, may fairly be held to prove that even before the Council of Ephesus there was a popular veneration for the Virgin Mother which threatened to run extravagant lengths. Hence Epiphanius laid down the rule: "Let Mary be held in honour. Let the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost be adored, but let no one adore Mary" (ten Marian medeis prosknueito). Nonetheless the same Epiphanius abounds in the praises of the Virgin Mother, and he believed that there was some mysterious dispensation with regard to her death implied in the words of Revelations 12:14: "And there were given to the woman two wings of a great eagle that she might fly into the desert unto her place." Certain it is, in any case, that such Fathers as St. Ambrose and St. Jerome, partly inspired with admiration for the ascetic ideals of a life of virginity and partly groping their way to a clearer understanding of all that was involved in the mystery of the Incarnation, began to speak of the Blessed Virgin as the model of all virtue and the ideal of sinlessness. Several striking passages of this kind have been collected.

* "In heaven", St. Ambrose tells us, "she leads the choirs of virgin souls; with her the consecrated virgins will one day be numbered."
* St. Jerome (Ep. xxxix, Migne, P.L., XXII, 472) already foreshadows that conception of Mary as mother of the human race which was to animate so powerfully the devotion of a later age.
* St. Augustine in a famous passage (De nat. et gratis, 36) proclaims Mary's unique privilege of sinlessness
* In St. Gregory Nazianzen's sermon on the martyr St. Cyprian (P.G., XXXV, 1181) we have an account of the maiden Justina, who invoked the Blessed Virgin to preserve her virginity.


More information here: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15459a.htm

48 posted on 10/11/2009 4:08:22 PM PDT by HighlyOpinionated (2012 -- Sarah Palin for President, Michele Bachmann for VP, Liz Cheney for Sec of State!)
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To: spacejunkie01; JPII Be Not Afraid; Salvation
The Bible is clear in NOT praying to the dead. This is the occult.

In fact, God has not, because he at times has given it—for example, when he had Moses and Elijah appear with Christ to the disciples on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matt. 17:3). What God has forbidden is necromantic practice of conjuring up spirits. "There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. . . . For these nations, which you are about to dispossess, give heed to soothsayers and to diviners; but as for you, the Lord your God has not allowed you so to do. The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren—him you shall heed" (Deut. 18:10–15).

God thus indicates that one is not to conjure the dead for purposes of gaining information; one is to look to God’s prophets instead. Thus one is not to hold a seance. But anyone with an ounce of common sense can discern the vast qualitative difference between holding a seance to have the dead speak through you and a son humbly saying at his mother’s grave, "Mom, please pray to Jesus for me; I’m having a real problem right now." The difference between the two is the difference between night and day. One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.

49 posted on 10/11/2009 4:09:10 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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To: spacejunkie01; Salvation
She was HUMAN, not GOD. All the dead are still dead until Jesus Christ’s return. Then the dead in Christ will rise first.

Many people are under the impression that one is not quite human if he or she is sinless. On the contrary, it is when we sin that we fall short of what it means to be fully human. Since we are made in the image and likeness of God, we are called to love as God loves. This is why Christ fully reveals man to himself, as Vatican II says. He shows us what it means to be perfectly human.

In the beginning, God created no one (neither angel nor human) with sin, and yet no one was equal to God. When Adam and Eve sinned, they acted in a manner that was beneath their dignity as beings made in God’s image and likeness. It was their sin that detracted from the glory of God, not their original sinlessness. God’s goodness is most clear when he sanctifies his creation by entering into it fully with the life of his grace.

This is why the sinless souls in heaven give the most glory to God. The unique glory of the Trinity is manifested most clearly in heaven—where is he surrounded by sinless beings. In their sinlessness, God has made them most fully what he intended for them to be. In Mary’s case, her sinlessness gives the most glory to God, since his work is made perfect in her. She is his masterpiece.

The Church does not hesitate to profess that Mary needed a savior. God can "save" a person from a sin by forgiving them, or by providing them the grace never to fall into that particular sin. A person can be saved from a pit in two ways; one can fall into it and be brought out, or one can be caught before falling into it. Mankind is saved in the first manner, and Mary in the second. Both are saved from the pit of sin. If Jesus wished to save his mother from the stain of sin, what is to prevent him?

50 posted on 10/11/2009 4:16:13 PM PDT by NYer ( "One Who Prays Is Not Afraid; One Who Prays Is Never Alone"- Benedict XVI)
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