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To: kosta50; MarkBsnr

“Is your salvation fact or faith?” - kosta50

Both. Faith now, to be revealed as fact at Judgment. Perhaps faith that it is fact.

“Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” - Hebrews 11

“If it is a fact, then I wonder what form of command that God received to let Him know of that fact.” - MarkBsnr

God keeps his promises. He also HAS SAVED (past tense) us.

“But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive [past tense] together with Christ— by grace you have been saved [past tense] — and raised us up [past tense] with him and seated us [past tense] with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show [future tense] the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved [past tense] through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God [not man], not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” - Ephesians 2

“Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.” - Jude


82 posted on 10/20/2009 7:12:01 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers; MarkBsnr
Both. Faith now, to be revealed as fact at Judgment. Perhaps faith that it is fact.

But it can't be a fact since it didn't happen (yet). So, it can only be hope, belief, hunch.

God keeps his promises

So, the Bible says...and you "authenticated" that through your faith only to use the Bible to authenticate your faith!

It's as if I were to proclaim myself to be a general and then promote myself to the next higher rank!

made us alive [past tense] together with Christ— by grace you have been saved [past tense] — and raised us up [past tense] with him and seated us [past tense] with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show [future tense] the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus

That's just Paul making a "sales pitch." He doesn't show the end product; he is peddling future with sweet sounding words. Yet he uses past tense (probably aorist which is not the same), as if something actually happened and nothing to show.

to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.” - Jude

Jude was one of the last books to be accepted, somewhere in the very late 3rd, going into the 4th century. Jude also exists in several mutually exclusive variants (v. 22-23), some being fiorigivng of doubters, others not at all...but verse 25 specifically is of interest because some manuscripts omit Jesus Christ and simply read "To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen."  [this, by the way, is the official Greek Orthodox version and represents Byzantine majority texts]

The difference can be appreciated when looked at side-by-side.

μονω σοφω θεω σωτηρι ημων δοξα και μεγαλωσυνη κρατος και εξουσια και νυν και εις παντας τους αιωνας αμην
μονω θεω σωτηρι ημων δια ιησου χριστου του κυριου ημων δοξα μεγαλωσυνη κρατος και εξουσια προ παντος του αιωνος και νυν και εις παντας τους αιωνας αμην

86 posted on 10/20/2009 10:19:58 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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