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To: Mr Rogers; kosta50

I do not speak Greek either. I do note that there are several words interpreted as ordained even though not literally translated that way. My understanding of translations in general is that each one is not only a translation of words, but a transmission of ideas. This is true in a modern as well as ancient sense of translating word meanings.

Here’s the Strong’s:

1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen

a) of events

3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage

a) of men appearing in public

4) to be made, finished

a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought

5) to become, be made

1, 2, & 4 don’t seem to fit the sense of the sentence. 4 might fulfill the definition you found in Barnes, although I took it as 5 in the same sense that the Mafia uses - to be a “made” man, set apart from the rest (no negative connotation meant).

I pinged Kosta50 to get his opinion if he would indulge us.


210 posted on 10/18/2009 4:25:33 PM PDT by 1010RD (First Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

kosta50 on this thread should be interesting...

;>)


213 posted on 10/18/2009 4:29:06 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: 1010RD; Mr Rogers; Kolokotronis
I pinged Kosta50 to get his opinion if he would indulge us

Mr. Rogers doesn't think much of my opinion, however since you asked—ginomai doesn't mean ordain in the English sense of the word, but it can in the context of a sentence.

I am also pinging Kolokotronis, who actually speaks this "stuff," as my quality control. :) I am much better with Church Slavonic.

Just so we are all on the same wavelength, let me just say that if you were to look for a Greek word "to ordain" you will not find γίνομαι (ginomai) listed as possible matches.

Also, to make sure we all agree on what ordain means in English, here is a dictionary definition (dictionary.com):

–verb (used with object)

1. to invest with ministerial or sacerdotal functions; confer holy orders upon.
2. to enact or establish by law, edict, etc.: to ordain a new type of government.
3. to decree; give orders for: He ordained that the restrictions were to be lifted.
4. (of God, fate, etc.) to destine or predestine: Fate had ordained the meeting.

–verb (used without object)

5. to order or command: Thus do the gods ordain.
6. to select for or appoint to an office.
7. to invest someone with sacerdotal functions.

There are at least six Greek words that can be interpreted as "ordain" in the English sense of appointment, but if I had to choose a formal one I would pick χειροτονέω (cheirotoneo), as in Acts 14:23, because the root cheir implies a "higher power", meaning to create, to make, to bring into being.

In order for something to be "ordained" a higher power (usually divine) is required implicitly or explicitly. The word ginomai by itself does not have that implicit meaning. It simply means to become, to be made, created.

In Slavonic, Acts 1:22 uses the word быти (byti), which simply means to be, as the verse reads "has to be one of them." So, given the context (Acts 1:24-26) it is obvious that Matthias was chosen (v. 24) by God to be[come] (ginomai) the witness to Christ's resurrection.

In other words, the translation of ginomai in this context is compatible with English ordained, because his becoming a witness was a choice made by God. The same can be said of Gal 4:4, where God sends his only-begotten Son to be created or made [ginomai] (born) by a woman.

I would only like to mention, for what it's worth, that one is said to "become" a military officer when he or she is commissioned by the president to serve "at his pleasure." We use the "to become" in this case in a manner very similar if not identical to "ordained" except that it is not from a divine power.

Without verses 24-26 ginomai could not be translated as ordained in the English sense, but the verse clearly show that it was God who tipped the scale. Clearly, the election Mtthias was considered God's choice (Act 1:24-26) and therefore is in effect an ordination.

328 posted on 10/18/2009 8:57:23 PM PDT by kosta50 (Don't look up, the truth is all around you)
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