Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Posted on 10/20/2009 8:00:19 AM PDT by Gamecock
If you find this ping-worthy.....
Interesting post! Our son is praying about what his master’s thesis title will be...as it will determine his studies the next 1 &1/2 yrs.
Dispensationalism is fading because new generations of Christians find no novelty in the existence of Israel as a nation.
It’s no longer “news” to them.
Sad.
“I approach theology in a spirit of adventure, being always curious about what I may find. For me theology is like a rich feast, with many dishes to enjoy and delicacies to taste.” (quoted in Grenz 134).
Isn’t it amazing that there are still so many dishes and delicacies to enjoy in God’s word? I disagree with Solomon that there is nothing new under the sun. I think this “book” which has been around for quite a while still contains so many treasures still undiscovered.
Still, a bit of clarification might be derived from looking at the true meaning of the word commonly translated as “church,” or “the church.” I submit a more proper rendering would be “the outcalled” of God, not the church. Is this distinction important? Absolutely!
Furthermore, I am always amazed at how people make such a big deal about labeling something or someone a “dispensationalist.” Isn’t a dispensation simply a method of dealing with? An adminstration, as it were. Doesn’t God have different ways of dealing with people, especially at different times?
Not sure what he expected to happen by persuing this course of action. A Covenant theologian doesn't develop his OT theology based on the OT text ... he bases it on his New Testament understanding of the OT text.
I will grant that Poythres is the only non-dispensationalist that seems to make a serious effort to dialog and understand dispensationalism. I speak as one who went the opposite direction ... from being brought up in the Reformed camp and eventually embracing the Baptist tradition.
Your comment that “new generations of Christians find no novelty in the existence of Israel as a nation” is very interesting to me, and unfortunately it is quite accurate.
Does the present day nation of Israel, as mandated by the corrupt, man-made United Nations, constitute the Israel of God? Or, is God going to do the establishing? Just wondering what you think.
Good post. Thanks.
oikonomia = administration = dispensation
Very Biblical words..............
The prophet Jeremiah says the re-gathering will be first in unbelief, then God will change them (the Jews) to belief in Him.
Or rather, “based on the OT text alone . Covenant theology properly understood rightly identifies the relationship between the testaments.
It is the dispensationalist who gets much of their theology, esp. their views on prophecy, from the OT text taken in isolation from the NT.
from being brought up in the Reformed camp and eventually embracing the Baptist tradition.
That’s an odd connection since most of the Baptists I know are reformed and covenantal and utterly reject dispensationalism. The historic Baptist position certainly was non-dispensational, although many have clearly fallen from those earlier days.
Indeed, when properly understood. I.e.,:
5. This covenant [of grace] was differently administered in the time of the law, and in the time of the gospel: under the law, it was administered by promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, the paschal lamb, and other types and ordinances delivered to the people of the Jews, all foresignifying Christ to come; which were, for that time, sufficient and efficacious, through the operation of the Spirit, to instruct and build up the elect in faith in the promised Messiah, by whom they had full remission of sins, and eternal salvation; and is called the old testament.The designation "dispensation" had to do with how the one covenant of grace was administered before Christ vs. after Christ. Before Christ it was administered via temporary promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, etc. After Christ, who is the substance of the covenant, the shadows gave way to the reality. We look back on the broken body and shed blood, and remember Christ’s work in the sacraments of baptism and the Lord’s Supper.6. Under the gospel, when Christ, the substance, was exhibited, the ordinances in which this covenant is dispensed are the preaching of the Word, and the administration of the sacraments of baptism and the Lord's Supper: which, though fewer in number, and administered with more simplicity, and less outward glory, yet, in them, it is held forth in more fullness, evidence and spiritual efficacy, to all nations, both Jews and Gentiles; and is called the new testament. There are not therefore two covenants of grace, differing in substance, but one and the same, under various dispensations.
Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 7
According the WCF, I can say that I’m a dispensationalist without having to acknowledge all the modern day, futurist nonsense that term has come to mean. Unfortunately, it would cause confusion among the biblically and theologically illiterate. It’s much like using the entirely appropriate designation “catholic”. The knee-jerk reaction from the know-nothings would be immediate.
The premise of this article misapplis Ryrie. Ryrie clearly believed in remnant Israel ALSO being within the Church. In the same way as Israel included the “remnant” is Elijah’s day and both were “Israel”, so will that distinction hold toward the end.
However, Israel “will not see Him again until (they) say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.” And then, “all Israel shall be saved.” as Paul says.
Yes, He will plead with them (as an attorney pleads his case) in the wilderness (or place of separation) where He can deal with them directly, and without interruptions.
Where does Ryrie use that sort of language?
However, Israel “will not see Him again until (they) say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.” And then, “all Israel shall be saved.” as Paul says.
Which points out how untenable the classic dispensationalist view is. If your claim about Ryrie is accurate, they would apparently equivocate on the term “Israel” and then chastise non-dispensationalists who do the same thing (at least in their mind).
Tell us all plainly, what does the phrase, “And so all Israel shall be saved” mean in actuality?
C&V, s’il vous plait.
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
It means the remnant shall be saved.
You didn’t ping Gamey, and he’s the one who started the thread.
You haven’t read Ryrie have you?
Did you know that the Greek word for 'pearl' is "margarita"?
oikonomia = administration = dispensation Very Biblical words..............
Yes,and they all have the same meaning.
Help me to understand. If I am dealing with you in a certain manner (administration, dispensation, etc.) then I should be consistent and act in accordance with the established set of ground rules. It seems to me that grace and the law are mutually exclusive, that is, I can’t deal with you in grace (undeserved favor) and also be dealing with you in the law in the same set of circumstances.
So, I can’t see how a covenant of grace can be administered in the time of law (by law, I understand to mean “rendering judgment,” which I understand is the purpose of the law).
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