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To: Claud; Gamecock
...nobody's hands are spotless in this mess. Old Scratch knows human nature well enough to see to that.

What role do you believe (if any) did a church becoming dominant in a state have in how doctrine/dogma was established.

I think this is where liberty in Jesus Christ, or dependence on a church is triggered (the state-church connection). I don't think this is limited to the RCC. From what I've learned of the Reformation churches they have some similarities in structure and beliefs.

78 posted on 10/29/2009 9:09:04 AM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

Agree.

Just look at any state church in Europe.


79 posted on 10/29/2009 9:14:07 AM PDT by Gamecock (A tulip, the most beautiful flower in God's garden.)
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To: wmfights; Gamecock
What role do you believe (if any) did a church becoming dominant in a state have in how doctrine/dogma was established.

There may well be a role. But once you believe that the universal Church is preserved from error by the Holy Ghost, then the question becomes somewhat moot. The right doctrine/dogma will triumph because that's what Christ promised....however it happens.

I think this is where liberty in Jesus Christ, or dependence on a church is triggered (the state-church connection). I don't think this is limited to the RCC. From what I've learned of the Reformation churches they have some similarities in structure and beliefs.

Right, and Gamecock is right about this. My father had taxes go to the Lutheran Church in Germany when he worked there even though he is Catholic. And vice versa Protestants in Italy.

We have evolved a kinda strange view on this in modern America that I'm not sure is even consonant with our own traditions. The Founding Fathers, who no one can accuse of being insensitive to the ideas of liberty, were not by any means opposed to established churches below the Federal level. From Wikipedia "State Religion":

The First Amendment to the US Constitution explicitly forbids the U.S. federal government from enacting any law respecting a religious establishment, and thus forbids either designating an official church for the United States, or interfering with State and local official churches — which were common when the First Amendment was enacted. It did not prevent state governments from establishing official churches. Connecticut continued to do so until it replaced its colonial Charter with the Connecticut Constitution of 1818; Massachusetts did not disestablish its official church until 1833, more than forty years after the ratification of the First Amendment; and local official establishments of religion persisted even later.
My opinion, in a nutshell, is that yes, established churches can be problematic but they needn't necessarily be. And I think in any case they are vastly preferable to what our society is evolving into now, which is a state completely devoid of religion.
82 posted on 10/29/2009 11:26:56 AM PDT by Claud
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