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To: Campion

Let’s look at what the Council of Trent said in response to the Reformation. If we look at their Canons, it seems that Roman Catholic doctrine denies justification by faith alone and says:

* “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema” (Council of Trent, Canons on Justification, Canon 9).

* “If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema.” (Canon 14).

Anathema, according to Catholic theology means excommunication, “the exclusion of a sinner from the society of the faithful.” The Greek word anathema is also translated as “accursed” (Rom. 9:3; Gal. 1:8-9, NASB & KJV), “eternally condemned” (Gal. 1:8-9, NIV), and “cursed” (Rom. 9:3, NIV),. We can see that Roman Catholic theology pronounces a curse of excommunication, of being outside the camp of Christ if you believe that you are saved by grace through faith alone in Jesus.

Does the Roman Catholic Church specifically state that we are “saved by grace and works”? Not that I am aware of and neither do the above Catholic Canons state such a thing.

But, when the Roman Catholic Church negates justification by faith alone, it NECESSARILY IMPLIES that we must do something for justification, for IF it is not by faith alone, then it must be by faith and something ( what then is that something ?).

At this point many Catholics (including priests that I have spoken to) appeal to James 2:24 which says, “You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.”

Protestants understand the context of James is speaking of DEAD FAITH as opposed to LIVING, SAVING faith.

Protestant understand this passage to mean that James states that if you “say” you have faith but have no works (James 2:14), that faith cannot save you because it is a dead faith (v. 17). In other words, mere intellectual acknowledgement of Christ is a dead faith that produces no regeneration and no change in a person’s life. This faith does not justify. Rather, it is only that real and believing faith in Christ that results in justification. When someone is truly justified, he is truly saved and regenerate. Therefore, we see the results of true saving faith as they are manifested in the changed life of the one justified by faith alone. Real faith produces good works but it isn’t these works that save you. Good works are the effect of salvation, not the cause of it in any way and they certainly do not help anyone keep their salvation.


14 posted on 10/31/2009 9:39:20 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (wH)
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To: SeekAndFind
But, when the Roman Catholic Church negates justification by faith alone, it NECESSARILY IMPLIES that we must do something for justification, for IF it is not by faith alone, then it must be by faith and something ( what then is that something ?).

The Catholic Church certainly denies that salvation is "by faith alone" as Luther meant it.

What do you mean by "justification by faith alone"?

If you mean that you are justified by firmly believing that Christ died for sinners, and that you are a sinner Christ for whom he died, and that therefore you are saved ... sorry. That amounts to believing your salvation into existence, and no, we don't agree with that.

If you mean by "faith" a filial adherence to and love for God and all his attributes and all his precepts, then we're getting closer.

Salvation is by grace, and only by grace. Faith flows from grace, and works (if they have any merit) also flow from grace through faith. This is the consistent teaching of both Scripture and the church fathers.

Real faith produces good works but it isn't these works that save you.

No, because ultimately it's God, and him alone who saves you.

Good works are the effect of salvation, not the cause of it in any way

But note that Paul writes in Romans 2 that God rewards those who do good.

and they certainly do not help anyone keep their salvation.

"Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers a multitude of sins" -- 1 Peter 4:8

Doesn't sound like Scripture agrees with you.

15 posted on 10/31/2009 9:56:41 PM PDT by Campion ("President Barack Obama" is an anagram for "An Arab-backed Imposter")
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