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To: marshmallow; Alex Murphy; Gamecock
Remind me again what is so great about trying to use one's own weak intellect to find truth in Scripture when it has been handed down to us by a faithful mother in the Church?

Well, since YOU asked....

Sorry, but if you're referring to the Catholic Church faithfully handling the truth, I would respectfully disagree. Please recall how the Jews felt THEY were the keepers of the faith until King Josiah happened to uncover the word of God hidden in the temple. They felt they could just go about worshiping God in any form they wanted. Wrong. It was when the people read the word of God hidden for all those years that they discovered their errors. Yet, once King Josiah passed the people did not follow after the ways of God, following His word.

In much the same way do I see the Reformation. Indeed I would argue there are strong parallels to King Josiah and the Reformation.

It's not an exaggeration to say that the Church (as much of Protestantism afterwards) has decided to essentially chuck the scriptures for this "feely-go" view of the gospel. Much of the Catholics on this site will cast doubts about the authenticity of scriptures as well as some Protestants. As this article (and Alex) points out, scripture is rarely used any longer. Mass does not use it much. Most Protestant churches tend to substitute anecdotal stories after reading a verse or two.

Less we forget, the holy scriptures of God is God-breathed words directly to us. At least, so thought the early Christians. In those holy scriptures is the power to save the lost and equip the saints. This power does not rest in reciting some sort of mass, reciting anecdotal stories, or listening to "mother Church". The gospel is the power of God; a miracle handed down to us that we so carelessly disregard it like manna from heaven. People who have a low view where they question the validity of God's word, might as well question the purpose of manna dropping from heaven. As we may recall from the holy scriptures, the people were so ungrateful to God's providence that God sent a plague on them.

If you believe mother Church to provide you insight, then you do not believe in the power of God to provide you insight. It's that simple and that sad.

129 posted on 11/02/2009 12:29:47 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
If you believe mother Church to provide you insight, then you do not believe in the power of God to provide you insight. It's that simple and that sad.

Yes, this is definitely the crux of our differences. The idea that the Catholic Church is somehow an obstacle between God and man reminds me of the attitude of some kids who see their parents as an "obstacle" to having fun or living life the way they think it should be lived.

However, in reality, it's not an either/or situation. It's not a choice between "the Church" on the one hand and "the individual" on the other. Of course God can and does provide man with insight. This in no way negates the role of the Church, however. Spiritual inspiration comes to man every day but in the overall plan of salvation, God established a group of men, a structure, to keep his Word intact, preserve the truth and shelter us from the storm.

Our personal insight needs a point of reference unless we wish to claim infallibility for ourselves. We're happy to say that the Scriptures are infallible (and they are) but infallible Scriptures are of little use without an infallible interpreter (the Church). What use is a secure lock without a key to open it? What use is a clever piece of machinery in the hands of someone who is not familiar with it?

An infallible Word of God needs to be safeguarded by an infallible Church. The two go together.

136 posted on 11/02/2009 2:13:36 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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