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To: Mr Rogers
Doesn't it make sense to have a "court of last resort" for safeguarding the truth and handing on the faith intact? Didn't Jesus take care to instruct the apostles to pass on only what they had been taught? Wasn't St. Paul at pains to emphasize the same thing?

The natural American aversion to central government is fine in secular matters and the Church shares it, thanks to the principle of subsidiarity, but the idea that leaving the understanding of Scripture to the individual has been a positive development is simply not borne out by history.

Isn't God a better father than that? I think so. Would a parent say to a child "figure it out for yourself" or would he say "here lies the truth; all else is error"?

I vote for the latter.

133 posted on 11/02/2009 1:24:37 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

***Didn’t Jesus take care to instruct the apostles to pass on only what they had been taught?***

And that’s what scripture is,they wrote down what we need..

The Magesterium is a bunch of made up hooey.


134 posted on 11/02/2009 1:32:25 PM PST by Gamecock (A tulip, the most beautiful flower in God's garden.)
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To: marshmallow
"Didn't Jesus take care to instruct the apostles to pass on only what they had been taught? Wasn't St. Paul at pains to emphasize the same thing?"

That is my point. The Magisterium does NOT pass on only what they have been taught from the Apostles or Jesus.

Here is how the New Catholic Encyclopedia describes how sacred tradition and the Magisterium 'unfolded' the Immaculate Conception:

As regards truths such as the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, there have been uncertainties and controversies over the very substance of the subjects involved. The revealed truth was indeed in the deposit of truth in the Church, but it was not formulated in explicit terms nor even in clearly equivalent terms; it was enveloped in a more general truth (that e.g. of the all-holiness of Mary), the formula of which might be understood in a more or less absolute sense (exemption from all actual sin, exemption even from original sin). On the other hand, this truth (the exemption of Mary from original sin) may seem in at least apparent conflict with other certain truths (universality of original sin, redemption of all by Christ). It will be readily understood that in some circumstances, when the question is put explicitly for the first time, the faithful have hesitated. It is even natural that the theologians should show more hesitation than the other faithful. More aware of the apparent opposition between the new opinion and the ancient truth, they may legitimately resist, while awaiting fuller light, what may seem to them unreflecting haste or unenlightened piety. Thus did St. Anselm, St. Thomas, and St. Bonaventure in the case of the Immaculate Conception. But the living idea of Mary in the mind of the Church implied absolute exemption from all sin without exception, even from original sin; the faithful whom theological preoccupations did not prevent from beholding this idea in its purity, with that intuition of the heart often more prompt and more enlightened than reasoning and reflected thought, shrank from all restriction and could not suffer, according to the expression ofSt. Augustine, that there should be question of any sin whatsoever in connexion with Mary. Little by little the feeling of the faithful won the day. Not, as has been said, because the theologians, powerless to struggle against a blind sentiment, had themselves to follow the movement, but because their perceptions, quickened by the faithful and by their own instinct of faith, grew more considerate of the sentiment of the faithful and eventually examined the new opinion more closely in order to make sure that, far from contradicting any dogma, it harmonized wonderfully with other revealed truths and corresponded as a whole to the analogy of faith and rational fitness. Finally scrutinizing with fresh care the deposit of revelation, they there discovered the pious opinion, hitherto concealed, as far as they were concerned in the more general formula, and, not satisfied to hold it as true, they declared it revealed. Thus to implicit faith in a revealed truth succeeded, after long discussions, explicit faith in the same truth thenceforth shining in the sight of all. There have been no new data, but there has been under the impulse of grace and sentiment and the effort of theology a more distinct and clear insight into what the ancient data contained. When the Church defined the Immaculate Conception it defined what was actually in the explicit faith of the faithful what had always been implicitly in that faith. The same is true of all similar cases, save for accidental differences of circumstances. In recognizing a new truth the Church thereby recognizes that it already possessed that truth."

A very Catholic-biased account, but it doesn't get around the fact that what was once not taught, is taught now. The Magisterium has been led by the faithful to understand what was not understood at the time of the Apostles.

Sacred tradition is NOT what was passed down, but what has been developed over the years. And as John put it: "Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work."

Sounds to me like I shouldn't even say "Hello" to someone on the Magisterium!

137 posted on 11/02/2009 2:14:26 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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