Radio Replies First Volume - Freemasonry

Celledoor.com ^ | 1938 | Fathers Rumble & Carty

[Texas Fossil]

My perspective is that our organization has been force for good since it’s inception. It is not at all clear when that actually was, public in 1717, but was active much before that.

There is a big difference between Grand Orient (in Europe) and Ancient Free varieties in the U.S. and England.

Your side denies many of the atrocities that happened early on. It also generally makes apologies for those who defend Monarchies as an acceptable form of government.

Yes, our organization has left it’s impression on this nation. You can see it in the opening and closing of the sessions of Congress, hear it in oaths of office for public officials.

I know of no other organization that is as careful about preserving truthfulness amoung it’s members.

And we admit NO athesists. None, Zero. Never have and never will.

We have protected persecuted groups on several continents. Fact.

In Texas the traditions are especially strong. Of the “old 300” of Austins colonists the number was significant. We are an old man’s organization today, but it has not always been that way.

I apologize to no man for my membership.

[Safrguns]

>>> I apologize to no man for my membership.

I certainly hope that no-one expects you to.

Would the world be a better place without this or any other organization like it? surely not.

But... Is it the man that defines the organization, or the organization which defines the man? Tricky question? maybe... but then again, maybe the question itself is faulty.

I look at it this way... What organization for the common good or evil for that matter will ever face the judgment seat of Christ? Where is the heart and soul of any organization that will be held responsible for the good or evil that the organization stood for or against?

The unification of a large number of peoples with a common goal will inevitably lead to a diverse range of individual beliefs within the group which must eventually face either resolution or compromise when the beliefs of the group are being defined for public record. The question is, at what point does the individual choose to sacrifice or compromise his/her beliefs to remain part of the group, and at what point do they conclude that separation from the group is required in order to remain true to their individual principles? Clearly, responsibility rests with the individual when making these types of choices. No one will be able to say “Lord... the organization is at fault for my actions and beliefs”. Conversely true, nobody will be able to say “Lord... my membership in this organization which did great things should count for me in sharing in it’s rewards” (because again... the organization itself is not judged in the hereafter).

Jesus said that we are either For Him, or against Him.
When He said this, he wasn’t talking to any group or organization. He was talking to individuals. We are individually responsible for making that determination as to whether an organization is For Christ or against Him... and it is our affiliations and memberships which do carry strong influence which will either lead people to Christ, or away from Him.

At the real heart of the matter though is this question...

Assuming for a moment that the Masonic organization is FOR Christ (insert reason), Does that righteousness automatically transmit itself from the organization to it’s members? Let’s say that it does (for argument sake)... How are the good deeds or righteousness of the individual going to affect whether or not he/she will go to heaven or hell?
What reward is there in Hell?... What punishment is there in Heaven? Is it more important for us eternally that we did the right and good thing on earth? Or is it more important that we restore our relationship with God first, and let the good works come as a matter of His leading?

In other words, is the individual saved by Grace or by Works?

The Christian teaching is that we are saved by Grace.
The world teaching is that we are saved by works.

Individually, we are responsible first for answering that question for ourselves. We are then held responsible for determining what parts of our lives support our convictions and what parts of our lives oppose them... and respond accordingly.

Is it the good deed we do? or is it what the good deed leads to which is more important?

[Texas Fossil]

“Assuming for a moment that the Masonic organization is FOR Christ (insert reason)”

Open prayers in Christ’s name are always said, beginning & ending. Contrary to what some of you have stated and been taught (in error).

Exclusivity of “Sect” is not. And yes, each of us must answer for his own actions. We have no differences along these lines.

But I see no need to answer to anyone but God and Christ. I worship no “human” in any capacity. Pope, Prince, King other than Christ.

Christianity is not about Compulsion, but Free Will. Some “sects” do not seem to understand that.

And yes, there are lodges where Jews, Muslims, and other monotheistic religion believers attend. In the U.S. I have never met a Muslim Mason. There are lodges that I am familiar with in Wichita KS that are almost totally Jewish. I have no problem with that. The organization is not a religion, but an association of men.

[Safrguns]

>>> The organization is not a religion, but an association of men.

An organization does not have to be a religion in order to teach religious principles.

Frankly, i doubt we can find any organization that does not teach religion in some form or fashion.

My point was that the more diverse the beliefs within an organization, the farther you get from the truth AS an organization. That goes for any group... not just masons.
And if Jesus does not occupy the center of ALL things which guide it, error cannot help but follow.

It is certainly a good thing that the name of Jesus is spoken as you say... But it is my point that Jesus doesn’t like sharing the stage. I think that is the primary christian argument against the masonic lodge.

Oh.. and of course there’s that Grace vs Works thing.

But please keep in mind that it is not you and your beliefs that I examine. It is the teachings that are put forth by the organization... such as the oaths of the first 3 degrees if we were to parse them word for word.

My father is a 32nd degree mason. He is also a very loyal and loving christian. I don’t question his salvation status at all, even though I seriously question this organization that he so deeply loves as well.