Posted on 11/16/2009 5:26:28 AM PST by markomalley
Lighten up. Nowhere in the article are politics, legislation, or public policy mentioned. Do what you want to do in your home....this article actually supports that. But it lays the consequences and complexities out there for those who are so inclined to exercise their free will.
You are free to look at porn until your eyeballs explode as far as I’m concerned. But you better sure as hell understand that you do that at your own peril, and you alone are responsible for the outcomes, including your strong projective over-reaction to a mere informative article on the implications of continuous viewing of porn.
A better word for Free Will might be Liberty.
If you don’t believe in Liberty, it comes down to your ability to impose your religious beliefs.
And here I thought His greatest gift was Jesus.
For the “odd angle”, let’s approach porn from the direction of biology.
From the point of view of biology, sex is for reproduction. That sex is pleasurable, is solely for enticement for sex, leading to reproduction.
Or is it?
Actually, nothing about sex is simple. In all variety of animals, from insects up to humans, sex is a challenge, a contest, and a major part of natural selection.
Males have a prerogative to transmit their DNA to their offspring, to as many females as possible.
But females have the double prerogative to get the “best” DNA, from out of a group of potential DNA donors; and also, if they are of a species that raises their offspring, to get the best male provider they can, again, out of a group of potential mates.
When there are few males available, this is easier than when there are a lot of males around. This means that females and males have to fiercely discriminate, at a bunch of levels.
At the cellular level, sperm is broken down into three known types. The first type is the fastest swimming fertilizing sperm. But a second type is a “blocker” sperm. It tries to block another males sperm from reaching the ovum. And a third kind is a “fighter” sperm, that will actually fight with another males sperm, with the same goal in mind.
The female also gets to pick and choose not just which sperm her ovum wants to be fertilized by, but often when it is to be fertilized. And this is much more complicated and less well understood.
This discrimination works its way up the chain of complexity all the way to social behavior.
For example, why is there marriage? There is a biological reason for marriage, because it is better than humans just mating. It promises the male that his offspring will have his DNA. It promises the female that in exchange for exclusivity with the male, he will help provide for her children. And the benefits to the children are obvious.
But marriage only works as a system when it is socially enforced, when outsiders won’t try to break in to the marriage for their own purposes. If society won’t enforce marriage this way, then the courts have to intervene to help marriage keep its advantages.
Then there is an additional problem, that a lot of males and females in our society are “also rans”, as far as reproduction goes. It has been speculated that prostitution exists as a way for non-reproductive males and females to be distracted away from reproductive couples.
Enter masturbation. From a purely reproductive point of view, it is insane, a waste of resources. Unless it is a way, again, for people who should not be reproducing to be diverted away from those who should.
So from a pure biological sense, masturbation is nature’s way of telling you that you are a reproductive loser. Of course that is not universal. There is some argument that post adolescent masturbation is a “functions check” of the reproductive equipment. But that is just a few times.
After that, masturbation is a way to eliminate you from the gene pool. So, quite literally, pornography is for losers. But should it be prohibited? Perhaps the answer to this arises from a different question.
Are you weak because you masturbate, or do you masturbate because you are weak? The assumption has long been the former, but if the latter is true, then excessive adult masturbation is a signal that you probably shouldn’t have children.
They are not fulfilling God's dream for their life as His precious daughter, nor are they fulfilling His design for sexual expression and fulfillment.
What if that were your daughter on that screen? How would that make you feel? Somewhere there's a bunch of fathers feeling that way.
This article doesn’t advocate banning anything. It gives moral and spiritual advice to someone who was seeking such. If you can’t handle a dose of moral clarity avoid threads like this.
Amen. Porn will reduce you to a loaf of bread. Its a terrible terrible feeling.
Two unresponded posts in a single thread. Are you trying to convince me or yourself?
I didn’t realize there was a limit.
Since porn (lust/sin) is one of the gateways to Hell...it's a very big deal!
Thanks I can send that to some folks who need some educating.
Bookmark.
> Since porn (lust/sin) is one of the gateways to Hell...it’s a very big deal!
I certainly can’t argue against that — I think we’re saying the same thing, but in a different way.
> Are you weak because you masturbate, or do you masturbate because you are weak? The assumption has long been the former, but if the latter is true, then excessive adult masturbation is a signal that you probably shouldn’t have children.
...and if you develop poor eyesight and pattern baldness, it is a sure sign that you masturbate./s
Sorry, I’m not really trying to be sarcastic: I thought the biological analysis was interesting but I’m not sure that the information available allows for your conclusion.
Pornography is sin because it is a manifestation of Lust. Masturbation is sin because it results in Onanism.
Both result in a sinner sinning. Unfortunately, from a biological viewpoint sinners tend to be pretty good at procreating, on balance — as we see in the days before Noah’s flood, and indeed as we see today. That would certainly include sinners who masturbate and sinners who indulge in pornography.
So, while it would be tempting to draw a causative link between those who are biologically unsuitable for procreation and those who masturbate, this causation doesn’t seem to be borne out by the evidence before us. Neither does there seem to be a causative link in the other direction, either.
If the biological link were true, you would expect to see the world full of righteous people, with sinners eventually becoming extinct. We know that isn’t happening — if anything it is happening the other way around.
This thread is worthless without pictures.
Are there degrees on sin?
For example - is stealing worse than looking at pornography? Is masturbation from pornography (if you’re married) the same as adultry?
If you’re married with children and live stressful lives and a husband or wife happened to masturbate every now and again because their partner may be legitimatally too tired for sex - is that a grave sin?
What if a spouse had to deploy with the military for a year? Is the other spouse then obligated to no self-gratification for a year? Wouldn’t it be better for a spouse to blow off some of that sexual energy through masturbation than to say - have a one-night-stand with a stranger?
Is masturbation ok by itself, or does it only become a sin if you use pornography to aid the masturbation?
Curious.
If you’re happily married with children, yet you masturbate on occasion, does that make you a loser? Your post was long and thought out, I just don’t understand the conclusion.
Many healthy men/women have very strong sex-drives. As you stated, this is a biological imperative. I would argue that it’s very possible for one to be married with children and still have that strong sex drive. Sometimes your partner is just not in the mood right?
I guess the question then is how much masturbation is ok? Once a week? Once a month?
I just find the whole issue sort of funny. God (or whomever you believe created man) obviously imbued us with a strong imperative to reproduce. What possible harm could one be doing to their bodies if they masturbate as opposed to only reaching sexual fruition through “regular” sex with a partner?
Free Will is a great gift.
Free to drink, smoke, jump out of a plane, not wear a helmet etc...
It gets screwed up by man during the consequences part. Too many can’t/won’t accept the consequences of their behavior.
This is usually where Libs and Conservatives part company.
There’s no such thing as “The Devil made me do it.”
That’s just a moron not accepting the consequences.
Yes, you’re right, the article doesn’t mention banning pornography. Just going for a broader point of view. That as a “vice” pornography is no different from anything else I mentioned.
It gets to the “Free Will” argument. I would argue that not all outcomes of looking at pornography are bad. But yes, some are.
If you believe in Jesus that’s great. Not everyone does. But everyone has Free Will (unless you live in a totalitarian society)
A billion people in China have never heard of Jesus. But they still enjoy God’s gift of Free Will (for the most part).
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