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To: annalex

First, “But through Mary we have access to the omnipotence of God.” That in itself gives lie to the whole claim that Mary isn’t mediating between us and God. There is no scriptural support anywhere for going through Mary to get to Jesus. It also gives lie to the claim that prayers ‘to Mary’ are just asking for her to pray on someone’s behalf. Sorry, but no one goes to a human and says, “Joe, pray for me, for it is through you that I can access the omnipotence of God”.

Second, “But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!” is NOT an endorsement of devotion to Mary.

Look at the first word: “BUT”. That means what follows is a contradiction. And notice he does NOT say, “you should also...” Instead, BUT is followed by “rather”. Rather means it is better to, or this is what you should do instead. Since rather is preceded by ‘but’, we are presented with Jesus saying ‘You’re missing the point. My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it.’ (from Luke 8)

Both Luke 8 & 11 make it clear that Jesus is saying the PHYSICAL relationship isn’t important, the SPIRITUAL one is!

Even the NAB footnote has “Rather, it emphasizes (like Luke 2:35) that attentiveness to God’s word is more important than biological relationship to Jesus.” or, from Luke 8, “The family of Jesus is not constituted by physical relationship with him but by obedience to the word of God.”

You wrote “The woman in the crowd blesses Mary because that woman comes to the understanding of the mystery of the Incarnation: the Word became flesh and Satan is defeated.”

Ummm...no. Blessing the mother that bore someone important was common. We still do it today.

The passage very clearly teaches that we should NOT focus on Mary, but focus instead on Christ. What is important is not the womb that bore Him, but the Cross that bore Him, and His resurrection. What is important is not that Mary gave Him birth, but that the Holy Spirit gives US a new birth.


6 posted on 11/21/2009 7:19:21 AM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers
“But through Mary we have access to the omnipotence of God.” That in itself gives lie to the whole claim that Mary isn’t mediating between us and God.

That phrase explains where Mary stands in relation to divine omnipotence. Radio Replies goes to great length to explain Mary's mediation in other paragraphs, but not in his one.

Rather means it is better to, or this is what you should do instead

Two words indicate correction (I highlighted them): "αυτος δε ειπεν μενουνγε". "But" is not Jesus speaking, it is St. Luke marking the beginning of a phrase indicating that a correction followed. Jesus's word is rendered as "μενουνγε", translated in most reputable English versions as "Yea rather". Correction of focus it is, negation it is not (*). I agree (and the Church agrees) that Jesus directed the woman to the spiritual reason to venerate Mary. I also agree that all the saints should be venerated as Jesus's mother and brother, because of their particular to their circumstance obedience to Him and whether they have a familial tie to Him or not.

What is important is not that Mary gave Him birth

No one denies that the fous is on Jesus, and that the Incarnation is meaningful because the Passion and the Resurrection are meaningful. Orthodox icons of the Nativity show the cradle at Mary's feet that is in the shape of a coffin, to remind us that Jesus was born to die. But nowhere does the scripture say that Jesus's miraculous birth is inimportant. St. Luke and St. Matthew devote much space to it in their gospels; St. John as well as the synoptic gospels and the Acts place Mary at every significant part of Jesus's ministry including the birth of the Church. If Mary seems inimportant to you, you should read the scripture and disabuse yourself of that unscriptural notion.


(*) See this explanation:

I believe that the error lies in the slip in the translation of the very first word of this sentence, which is a composite word: the particle “ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ” (men-oon-ye). What is its significance? According to the dictionaries, this particle is comprised of three different words: the oppositional particle “ΜΕΝ” (men = rather), the conclusive particle “ΟΥΝ” (oon = therefore) and the certifying particle “ΓΕ” (ye = certainly). In composite form, these words do not maintain their initial significance. The fragment “ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ” (men-oon-ye) is usually used at the beginning of a reply; at times, it can be used as a weighty verification and it can also be used as a certification that somehow corrects and supplements the significance of those words that precede it. The particle “ΓΕ” (ye = certainly) intensifies the meaning of the word to which it is annexed. Thus, the specific tract of the New Testament, could be seen as equivalent to the modern Greek expressions of “indeed”, “yes, of course”, “most certainly!”. It is remarkable how, this same composite word “ΜΕΝΟΥΝΓΕ” (men-oon-ye) is mentioned in three other tracts of the New Testament, with the same connotation: Romans 9/IX 19 and 10/X 18, Philippians 3/III 8. In each of these instances, this word confirms the significance of the preceding sentence and intensifies its meaning.

A SLIP IN TRANSLATION

10 posted on 11/21/2009 1:24:22 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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