Posted on 12/05/2009 6:00:32 PM PST by NYer
“inconvenient verses 21 and 22”
Ah, but Romans 4:10 and 4:11 show that just war is not merely permitted, but an inescapable moral duty.
That was a good book.
I loved the part when they had to make and emergency landing after the bomb run and depleted their flare inventory in order to get the runway cleared.
You’ll find it in the Ten Commandments as number six.
While it is common to render “kill” to mean “murder” in order to provide justification the the times when humans do kill humans (war, capital punishment, self defense), Jesus makes the meaning plain in His Sermon on the Mount, Matt 5:21-22
“Thou shalt not kill” means “Thou shalt not kill”. When we do we are in violation of God’s law.
What I found in YHvH's word is: NAsbU Deuteronomy 5:17 'You shall not murder. YHvH commands us to use the death sentence for murderers Yah'shua repeats His commandment not to murder in The Hebrew word for murder is HSN-7523 תרצח׃ ratsach (953d) I pray you seek the face of G-d in His Word and not in the traditions of man. I don't find that anywhere in YHvH's commandments:
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
NAsbU Exodus 20:13 "You shall not murder.
Other references are :
Exod. 20:13; Deut. 5:17; Ps. 62:3; 94:6; Jer. 7:9; Hos. 4:2; 6:9; Matt. 5:21; 19:18; Mk. 10:19; 15:7; Lk. 18:20; 23:19, 25; Acts 9:1; Rom. 1:29; 13:9; Jas. 2:11; 4:2 NAsbU Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.
You seem to be using a mis-translation from the Vulgate or the KJV
Matt. 5:21; 19:18; Mk. 10:19; 15:7; Lk. 18:20; 23:19, 25
Exo 20:13 לא תרצח׃
Meaning: to murder, slay
Origin: a prim. root
Usage: killed(1), kills the manslayer(1), manslayer(18), murder(7), murdered(2), murderer(12),
murderer shall be put(1), murderers(1), murders(1), put to death(1), slew(1).
Notes: (a) Gen 9:6; Exo 21:12; Lev 24:17; Mat 5:21; Mat 19:18; Mar 10:19; Luk 18:20; Rom 13:9; Jam 2:11
I’ll politely disagree with your opinion, interpetation and reasoning on these matters. As well, what is or not relevant to this discussion on this thread. Clearly we differ.
> You seem to be using a mis-translation from the Vulgate or the KJV
I use the KJV, which translates the Word of God with sufficient accuracy for any Christian to adequately understand God’s Will and Christ’s Commandments.
One advantage to Christianity is that we need not debate the subtleties of linguistics in order to understand God’s intention. This is because Jesus Christ Himself provided further revelation, which removes all doubt.
In this case, the difference between “murder” and “kill” in the Ten Commandments is made moot by Christ’s words in the Sermon on the Mount. Not only is the Christian expected not to (murder/kill) his fellow man, but Christ holds us to an even higher standard of behavior, as we read in Matt 5 21:22. Irrespective of whether we believe God meant “Thou Shalt Not Murder” (as you believe) or “Thou Shalt Not Kill” (as I believe), that baseline is lifted to Christ’s higher expectation for His followers.
> I pray you seek the face of G-d in His Word and not in the traditions of man.
Likewise, FRiend.
I use the KJV, which translates the Word of God with sufficient accuracy for any Christian to adequately understand God’s Will and Christ’s Commandments.
One advantage to Christianity is that we need not debate the subtleties of linguistics in order to understand God’s intention. This is because Jesus Christ Himself provided further revelation, which removes all doubt.
In this case, the difference between “murder” and “kill” in the Ten Commandments is made moot by Christ’s words in the Sermon on the Mount. Not only is the Christian expected not to (murder/kill) his fellow man, but Christ holds us to an even higher standard of behavior, as we read in Matt 5 21:22. Irrespective of whether we believe God meant “Thou Shalt Not Murder” (as you believe) or “Thou Shalt Not Kill” (as I believe), that baseline is lifted to Christ’s higher expectation for His followers.
Anyone who claims to believe in Yah'shua Yah'shua states in Mark It states that YHvH has lied. All followers of the Christ believe that YHvH is the same yesterday, today and forever. YHvH commands that animals be killed and offered. YHvH condemns murder, be it be Cain and Abel or any other Most followers of the Christ believe the Sermon on the MountThe Torah was written in Hebrew by YHvH.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
would look to the Hebrew understanding
of "You shall not Murder". NAsbU Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, "The foremost is,
Yah'shua also said:
'HEAR, O ISRAEL! YHvH OUR Elohim IS ONE YHvH; NAsbU John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
The understanding that Yah'shua has made a new revelation
other than the prophesy in the Book of Revelation is indulging in blasphemy.
human Being created in the image of YHvH.
See Genesis 9:6
refers to the justice which will occur during the Millennium Reign of Yah'shua.
I'd guess by your screen name you're Catholic, so take it up with one of your own: Saint Augustine comments: If the Christian Religion forbade war altogether, those who sought salutary advice in the Gospel would rather have been counseled to cast aside their arms, and to give up soldiering altogether. On the contrary, they were told: 'Do violence to no man . . . and be content with your pay.' If he commanded them to be content with their pay, he did not forbid soldiering.1
The US operates in all aspects in a legal war environment. Some members may behave dishonorably, but their sin doesn't transfer on to the vast majority.
Your view of what a 'serious Christian' would do is painful. You libel the service and sacrifice of generations who set you up so you can libel them.
> The Torah was written in Hebrew by YHvH.
I respectfully disagree. The Torah was written by Moses on God’s instruction.
The 10 Commandments were written by God onto stone, given to Moses, smashed by Moses, re-written by God, given again to Moses and stored in the Ark of the Covenant.
> Anyone who claims to believe in Yah’shua would look to the Hebrew understanding of “You shall not Murder”.
I claim to believe in Jesus, not Yah’shua, and as a Christian it is sufficient for me to read what Jesus instructed and to follow that. Christ fulfilled the Ten Commandments and they no longer apply to us today.
As I said earlier, because Jesus provided further instruction of his own to supersede the Sixth Commandment, we as Christians need follow only Christ’s commandment that replaced it. So whether the word in Hebrew means “murder” (as you believe) or “kill” (as I believe) is moot and no longer relevant. Christ provided alternative instructions and holds His followers to a higher standard.
> Most followers of the Christ believe the Sermon on the Mount refers to the justice which will occur during the Millennium Reign of Yah’shua.
I am unaware of any Christians who believe that. There is nothing in the Sermon on the Mount that indicates that it isn’t to apply with immediate effect. In fact, the behaviors taught in the Sermon on the Mount are classic characteristic behaviors expected of all Christians.
I respectfully disagree. The Torah was written by Moses on God’s instruction.
The 10 Commandments were written by God onto stone, given to Moses, smashed by Moses, re-written by God, given again to Moses and stored in the Ark of the Covenant.
U-2012> Anyone who claims to believe in Yah’shua would look to the Hebrew understanding of “You shall not Murder”.
I claim to believe in Jesus, not Yah’shua, and as a Christian it is sufficient for me to read what Jesus instructed and to follow that. Christ fulfilled the Ten Commandments and they no longer apply to us today.
As I said earlier, because Jesus provided further instruction of his own to supersede the Sixth Commandment, we as Christians need follow only Christ’s commandment that replaced it. So whether the word in Hebrew means “murder” (as you believe) or “kill” (as I believe) is moot and no longer relevant. Christ provided alternative instructions and holds His followers to a higher standard.
That describes lawlessness. What does Yah'shua say about lawlessness ? Also see Matt. 7:23; 13:41; 23:28; 24:12; Rom. 6:19; 2 Co. 6:14; 2 Thess. 2:3, 7; Heb. 1:9; 1 Jn. 3:4 You seem to be on the wide road of lawlessness. Mazol Tov! Have wonderful journey. May you someday come to know YHvH and His salvation. So the Ten Commandments of YHvH no longer apply ??
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
NAsbU Matthew 7:23 "And then I will declare to them,
Was Yah'shua talking about His Law ??
'I never knew you;
DEPART FROM ME,
YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
> So the Ten Commandments of YHvH no longer apply ??
That is correct. The Ten Commandments have been fulfilled by Christ and superseded by His commandments.
> You seem to be on the wide road of lawlessness
No, I’m on the straight and narrow road that is called Christianity.
That is correct. The Ten Commandments have been fulfilled by Christ and superseded by His commandments.
U-2012> You seem to be on the wide road of lawlessness
No, I’m on the straight and narrow road that is called Christianity.
May YHvH and His Son (YHvH is my salvation) have mercy on you. You have been deceived by False Shepherds. Seek YHvH in His Holy Word. Then you follow some G-d other than YHvH and His Son Yah'shua.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
> Then you follow some G-d other than YHvH and His Son Yah’shua.
I follow Jehovah and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ.
> May YHvH and His Son (YHvH is my salvation) have mercy on you.
I have faith that I will be Saved by Grace.
Sloppy Agape and Greasy Grace don't save.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachMembership in a man made enterprise will not save.
Seek YHvH and His salvation in His Word only.
> Sloppy Agape and Greasy Grace don’t save.
Christians are saved by Grace, not by Works, as St Paul goes to some considerable lengths to explain in his letter to the Romans.
And it was God’s Love that provided His Son Christ for a sacrifice for our sins, so that we could believe on Him and be saved.
Those are two core, fundamental Christian principles. I believe these principles because I am a Christian.
The really sad thing is that you already know this.
Don’t believe I said that it was....
Just pointing out the selective bias of our liberal educational system.
The Japanese atrocities in China led to our embargo of Japan.
Japan’s attack on America started our official active involvement in ww2 - BTW Hitler declared was on the US because we declared war on Japan.
Unfortunately our approved textbooks in this country overlook these minor facts.
A mans got to know his limitations.
‘Away All Boats’ - a great movie have it in 16mm and a 1st edition book
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