That is a refutation of the wrong chick, not chicks in general.
Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.
Posted on 12/14/2009 2:10:51 PM PST by marshmallow
1. Allowing priests to marry would end pedophilia.
It is completely untrue that celibate priests are more likely to be pedophiles than any other group of men, married or not. Pedophilia affects only 0.3 percent of the population of Catholic clergy, and sexual abusers in general account for less than 2 percent of Catholic priests. These figures are comparable to rates among married men, as non-Catholic scholar Philip Jenkins points out in his book Pedophiles and Priests. Other Protestant denominations have admitted to having similar problems among their own married clergy, so clearly the problem is not with celibacy.
2. A married clergy would create a larger pool of healthy priestly candidates, solving the current priest shortage.
There are actually plenty of vocations today in faithful dioceses: Denver, Northern Virginia, and Lincoln, Nebraska, have great numbers of men entering the priesthood. If other dioceses, such as Milwaukee, want to answer the question of why they have so few vocations, the answer is simple: Challenge young men to a religious life that is demanding, countercultural, sacrificial, and loyal to the Holy Father and Catholic teaching. This is the surest way to guarantee a greater number of vocations.
3. Married priests relate better to issues concerning marriage and the family.
To put it bluntly, one doesn't need to be an adulterer to counsel other adulterers. Priests understand the sacrificial nature and sanctity of marriage in a way that few others do. Who better to counsel a person in the ways of keeping the marital vow of fidelity than one who keeps the vow of celibacy?
4. It's unnatural for men to be celibate.
This idea reduces men to animals, creatures who can't live without their sexual urges being gratified. But humans are not animals. Humans make choices about the gratification of their appetites. We can control and channel our desires in a way that sets us apart from the rest of the animal world. And again, most sexual abusers are not celibate. It's sexual license that breeds sexual abuse, not celibacy!
5. Celibacy in the Latin rite is unfair. Since the Eastern rite allows married priests and the Latin rite allows married priests who have converted from Episcopalianism and Lutheranism, why can't all priests be married?
The discipline of celibacy among priests is one of the distinctive marks of the Roman Catholic tradition. Anyone who chooses to become a priest accepts the discipline. The Eastern rite, Lutheranism, and Episcopalianism, on the other hand, have a long tradition of married priests and the infrastructure and experience to handle it. However, Eastern rite priests and married priests who have converted from Lutheranism or Episcopalianism are NOT allowed to marry after their ordination or remarry after the death of their wife. In addition, the Eastern Church only chooses bishops from among their celibate, unmarried priests, clearly demonstrating that they see an inherent value in the nature of celibacy.
Peter was married.
Less than two percent??? At it's apex, the USCCB's John Jay Study reported that 4% of all (US) priests serving from 1950 until 2002 were accused of abuse. The John Jay study puts real numbers on that percentage:
The study said that 4,392 clergymen—almost all priests—were accused of abusing 10,667 people, with 75 percent of the incidents taking place between 1960 and 1984. During the same time frame there were 109,694 priests, it said........68 percent of the allegations were made against priests ordained between 1950 and 1979, while priests ordained after 1979 accounted for 10.7 percent of the allegations.
For the entire 52-year period "the problem was indeed widespread and affected more than 95 percent of the dioceses and approximately 60 percent of religious communities," said the study.
[Faithful Departed author Philip] Lawler points out that while less than five percent of American priests have been accused of sexual abuse, some two-thirds of our bishops were apparently complicit in cover-ups. The real scandal isn't the sick excesses of a few dozen pedophiles, or even the hundreds of priests who had affairs with teenage boys -- the bulk of abuse cases. No, according to Lawler, it is the malfeasance of wealthy, powerful, and evidently worldly men who fill the thrones -- but not the shoes -- of the apostles. In case after case, we read in their correspondence, in the records of their soulless, bureaucratic responses to victims of psychic torture and spiritual betrayal, these bishops' prime concern was to save the infrastructure, the bricks and mortar and mortgages. Ironically, their lack of a supernatural concern for souls is precisely what cost them so much money in the end.
-- from the thread Kneeling Before the World
1. The statement in the article that "......sexual abusers in general account for less than 2 percent of Catholic priests" makes no reference to the USA. It could be a global figure. The figure of 4% cited in the John Jay report pertains to the US.
Is it possible that clerical abuse was more widespread in the US than in other parts of the world? Not only possible, but likely.
2. The John Jay figures document accusations of abuse. Not the same thing as guilt.
True. Many other Apostles were, as well. That is, if you believe the Apostle Paul. But what does he know? /sarc
5 Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas? - 1 Corinthians 9:5
Genesis — 18 God said, “It is not good for man to be alone”. [...] 24 For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife [...]
I am a Protestant (partially because of this disagreement with Catholicism). I do not think God intended men — even priests — to be alone.
And, while I think the “celibacy leads to pedophilia” charge is WAY overblown — I think there may be something to the thought that priestly celibacy tends to lead men with homosexual tendencies into the priesthood.
If a faithful Christian man were struggling with attraction to his own gender, the priesthood is a good place to go where his marital status, lack of dating and/ or sexuality will likely not be questioned. This is obviously not universally the case — but I would bet the percentage of priests with homosexual urges exceeds the percentage of the general male population with homosexual urges.
SnakeDoc
That's not a problem with celibacy per se, but with the Church's failure to properly vet candidates.
Note to read later.
1. The statement in the article that "......sexual abusers in general account for less than 2 percent of Catholic priests" makes no reference to the USA. It could be a global figure. The figure of 4% cited in the John Jay report pertains to the US.
Is it possible that clerical abuse was more widespread in the US than in other parts of the world? Not only possible, but likely.
2. The John Jay figures document accusations of abuse. Not the same thing as guilt.
3. Catholics who will ignore or skew numbers to advance a preconceived agenda. For example, another Catholic FReeper recently stated "A father, who is a minister and teachers Bible Study....is a far more likely case for a molester than any priest" but did not cite any studies or apples-for-apples comparitive numbers to support the biased accusation.
“...every night of your life.”
300 lbs. weight gain over 15 years and flannel.
Ray: Not the flannel pajamas!
Debra: What?
Ray: When you come to bed wearing that silky thing I know I have a chance, but the flannel pajamas? You might as well be wearing a porcupine suit!
I don’t get the logic that celibacy is a cause of sexual abuse? If you’re celibate you’re more likely to abuse children?
What’s the logic here?
I think the argument is that if you're celibate too long, you are more likely to lose control and abuse someone/thing (i.e. 1 Corinthians 7:5?). But I'm not the one making the argument or posting the threads (nor have I read any of today's threads on the subject). You'll have to redirect the question to someone else.
Ahhh. Excellent.
1Timothy ch 3
v2: A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife,
vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Peter was indeed married.
Natural is a word that can be brought to the phrase “the way God made it”.
Priests should be free to choose....it ain’t natural the way they have it set up..
That is a refutation of the wrong chick, not chicks in general.
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