Posted on 12/16/2009 11:13:37 PM PST by Gamecock
It’s been a few years since the council of Trent, if you haven’t noticed. I believe this was officially changed during Vatican II, but it could have been sooner. I am not a religious scholar, but I know my Catholic faith.
It is the key as it point to Christ. It is not required reading if not available. Besides, the Apsotles were the first hand recipients of the Gospel, no?
Besides, the NT was floating around among the elect bfore the formal canon was established.
BB: Haven't read much of Augustine or Calvin, I'm familiar with some of Luther's writings. I agree with many of the problems he had with the Catholic church at that time (such as the church selling indulgences), I also have problems with many of writings, like his bitter anti-Jewish pamphlet "On the Jews and their lies" he published in his later years.
Again, I said "many." Do you agree with everything your church has written? Do you approve of the inquistion?
Catholics believe that there are three and only three divine persons. God the father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. Catholics also believe that these divine persons are Co-eternal, meaning that they all three exixted from the beginning of time and they are co-equal in stature to each other and only each other. We also believe that Jesus from the moment of his "Conception" came to posses a second human nature. This nature is Co-Equal to his Divine nature. By that I mean that He is Fully God and fully man/ human at the same time.
Mary gave birth to this one person with two natures.He fed at her breasts and she even changed his little diapers. So yes we believe that she is the "Mother of God."
I hope this clarifies our belief
That wasn't my first thought. I was more interested in the ecclesiology, the sorrowful ecclesiology of some Protestants who say, "We may be wrong, but you still have to abide by our judgment, even with respect to whom you marry."
And as for the "we may be wrong," once again an otherwise reasonable answer (within the system) is tainted by falsehood NOT about the truth of what we hold, but about what it is that we actually hold.
When will somebody notice that the urge to condemn us feelthy papists is so strong that many of those who yield to it promptly give up their regard and care for easily ascertainable truths? Anyone who sets himself up as a kind of OPC "Dear Abby" ought at least to spend the five minutes it would take to find out if "co-redemptrix" is indeed what we teach.
So it's not bashing in the first degree, but it is bashing, or it bears to bashing the same relation that manslaughter bears to murder. It's not intentional because it's ignorant, but some harm is done nonetheless.
But for them to be honest they would have to admit their position, as incorrect as it is, that we Proddies hold to damnable heresies.
AS long as it's clear that its the heresy which is damnable, that what is objectively a heresy can be held to in error rather than stubbornness, and so the holding, while a heck of an impediment, is not necessarily "mortal", then, yeah.
I don't get the outrage that disputants have because the other party is a disputant. Some people think I'm wrong; I think some people are wrong. Duh.
But when the people who think I'm wrong keep on saying I'm wrong because I think something I do not think or insist on something on which I do not insist, then I get at least perplexed and sometimes downright ornery.
This morning's verbosity brought to you by Boca Java ....
Then why not say that, instead of attacking "mother of God?"
This thread is a devicive tool and should not warrent any response.
But you were kind in your post.
: )
Did not Jim Robinson speak up the other day about such foolishness of these type of threads?
Seriously? After we've done this so many times?
As I said earlier, the false doctrine, the heresy, can be held in error or in ignorance. It can be held for seemingly or partially good reason. In such a case, the holder is not necessarily choosing to reject the truth, and the Truth is generous, patient, and forgiving. (Thank Goodness!)
And please give us the amount of both who become Atheist or agnostic.
Promote division among Christians.
What good are you doing?
God forgive you.
Actually, I agree that mixed marriages are generally a terrible idea. In fact Canon 1124 prohibits it without a dispensation (after an interview process).
You OPC types aren't ever going to agree with actual Orthodox Christianity, but that's not the point of this piece you wrote, I don't think.
If I was her fiance's pastor, I would counsel him to look elsewhere. He doesn't need to be mixed up with a heretic, particularly a Calvinist one.
You wrote:
“Explain Trent.”
Trent was written when Catholics were leaving historic, orthodox Christianity and joining Protestant sects which taught and held to erroneous doctrines. Trent’s canons apply to Catholics who adopted heretical ideas. The canons are really not about those born into and raised as Protestants 400 years after the beginning of the Protestant Revolution.
This has been explained COUNTLESS times here at FR.
Satan has had a hold on PCUSA for a long time.
Ummm, v, MarMema is an Orthodox Christian. From your seminary days you may remember a little get together called the Council of Ephesus where we Eastern Greek speaking Christians, lead by +Cyril of Alexandria in opposition to Nestorius of Constantinople and John of Antioch, taught a bunch of heretics, including an emperor, how to pronounce "Theotokos". Marmema knows quite well that Panagia is the Most Holy Theotokos.
This is a very interesting situation. My wife and I were lifelong Catholics and just recently converted to Baptist.
Fortunately, in our 13 years of marriage, we have always attended the same church. I think there are many “saved” Catholics and Catholicism has a lot of merit, but it also has some clearly flawed doctrines that are not scriptural-chief among them are purgatory and praying to Mary and other saints.
These were the main reasons why we finally left the Catholic Church.
In your situation though, I don’t think it’d be advisable for a future OPC minister to be married to a Catholic that was attending a different church every Sunday-not to mention that yes, the Catholic Church would insist that the kids are raised Catholic as well.
This situation is bound to cause many conflicts. As you can see just by this thread, there is quite a bit of difference of opinion between Catholics and Protestants and many on both sides believe that you MUST be in their church to be in the “true” church.
If you are serious about your faith, which it seems you are, I think it is best to marry someone who you can worship together with every Sunday.
Exactly, Vlad. Membership in the Church can get hazy for people born in heresy.
The OPC baptizes validly. So its members are, at that moment, in the Church and “saved”. That salvation would be retained as long as the person in question does not commit any mortal sin or at least has perfect contrition for all mortal sins committed.
Heresy would certainly be a mortal sin. But to what extent is it done obstinately and with full consent of the will, in the case of someone born into it? Difficult to say.
The dogma Outside the Church there is No Salvation remains perfectly intact. The only question is who is inside and who is outside.
Catholics are good and decent people. I have never known one who was not willing to marry beneath themselves by marrying outside of the church and taking a spouse from one of the gutter religions.
The children do have to be raised in the Catholic Church (You know the one. The Chruch founded by Peter as directed by the Lord Jesus Christ). We have enough snake handlers and televangelists in the world.
What? This thread wasn't funky enough?
Our faith teaches that we turn the other cheek and forgive. The anti-Catholic hatred on this forum often makes this is a difficult task. I live in the southeast where anti-Catholic hatred is openly taught in public schools and churches (I went to Catholic School about two miles from Bob Jones University). I have had my fill and do not suffer fools gracefully.
“What? This thread wasn’t funky enough?”
Which shall it be? RightGuard or Raid?
I was thinking Sr. Mary Margaret’s Patented Holy Rosary Spray and Eau du Cologne, but that might not be enough to reduce the funky atmosphere.
In my own immediate family we have married and converted FOUR RC’s. Actually....converted and married in that order!
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