[Tzfat]

But sometimes people in their zeal to prove what they believe, point to things that aren't there.

I completely agree. Isaiah 7:14, and Isaiah 53 are perfect examples of Christians making morons of themselves to prove a point. Denying the PLAIN MEANING, they appear to be grasping at straws.

Better to state that Isaiah 7:14 clearly says ALMA, and that this could be a virgin as the LXX indicates (instead of beating Jews up for not seeing it their way). Likewise, ignoring the plain text of Isaiah 52, where the "servant" is clearly defined as "Israel My servant" and pretending that it does not say this. Rather, admit that the text does in fact say that Isaiah 53 (a continuation of ch 52) is about Israel - which does not preclude it being about Israel's chief representative, Messiah.

[SeekAndFind]

I completely agree. Isaiah 7:14, and Isaiah 53 are perfect examples of Christians making morons of themselves to prove a point. Denying the PLAIN MEANING, they appear to be grasping at straws.

Here's the question I want to ask -- how has Isaiah 7:14 been TRADITIONALLY understood by Israelites and Jews HUNDREDS OF YEARS before Jesus was born ? Has it been understood simply as a reference to a historical figure in the past, or has there been a tradition of understanding this to also have a double meaning to refer to the future Messiah ?