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To: Dallas
"I'm sure we agree that we don't "give" God anything. We only return a portion of what He has "given" us."

God gives us gifts and also blesses the work of our hands to multiply what we do.

"Matt 19 is pretty clear. Jesus answered His' disciples by telling them to forsake all their worldly things and they'd be rewarded with spiritual things. Jesus certainly didn't tell them to go and build mega-churches and keep the doors locked 5 days a week."

You can take any example to a ridiculous conclusion if you try hard enough.

Saying that God is only concerned with spiritual things is such a mistaken attitude. There are so many teachings in the OT and NT concerning money and how we will be blessed or cursed depending on how we handle it. I can cite those but I bet you are familiar with them already.

"We are not Jews, we don't live in the covenant land, we're not under the condemnation of the law given to Moses, and we certainly have a perfect Priesthood compared to the Levites. (Heb 10:1-10)"

Nope, we are not Jews. But we are ingrafted in the vine. And Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not to destroy it. We have a better covenant.

"The Israelites were not able to receive the promises/blessings because of their disobedience. "

Not true. They went through many periods where they rec'd the blessings because they were obedient. They lived by God's principles and prospered during those times. There are many examples of people who prospered because they followed God's laws of handling their finances. The times they were disobedient were the times where they were taken into captivity and they became a debtor nation.

"What makes you think we would fare any better under the conditions of the old covenant? "

We aren't, both as a nation and as individuals in this day right now. Look at the current crisis we are in. If people (and our leaders) had stayed true to biblical principles of not going into debt then we wouldn't be in this position now.

"If you are trying to receive the blessings God promised Israel (by quoting Malachi) then you must also partake of the curses, too."

As I said, Jesus came to fulfill the Law, and not one jot or tittle has been replaced. Right now we are suffering as a nation (and will suffer even more) because of us turning our back on those principles laid out in the OT. We have experienced the blessings in the past and right now we are enduring the curses.

168 posted on 12/21/2009 5:47:32 PM PST by webstersII
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To: webstersII
I'm only taking issue with your mindset that God's covenant with the nation of Israel somehow affects you as a Christian.

All the promises/blessings come via Abraham. There was only ONE promised Seed (Jesus) of Abraham, and through Him all the nations would be blessed. The nation of Israel was only the vessel.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

The law given later at Sinai do NOT affect the promises made to Abraham.

Gal 3:17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Thus, our justification comes solely by faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 3:29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I disagree that Israel ever prospered in a secular way. Solomon called his own accomplishments vanity. (Eccl 2:10-11)

169 posted on 12/21/2009 10:14:53 PM PST by Dallas
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