Help me find the Truth. (Personal question)

For the sake of a discussion, let's assume that I am a brand new neighbor of yours. We have only met each other in passing. You play the part of the Christian and I will play the part of the agnostic. (BTW, none of the below is true about me. Upfront, I am Mormon, but I have tried to get into this discussion on this forum for some time, but haven't been able to do so.)

(I also realize that there are some of you who are more than eager to post anti-Mormon material on this thread and I request that you don't do so. I don't even want Mormonism mentioned in this thread beyond this point.)

Let's assume that I'm out trimming the hedges between your house and mine and that you are working in a garden close to the hedges.

My wife and three kids, ages 3, 8, and 13, are all out with me. My wife keeps telling me I need to paint the house before it gets colder, my younger children are throwing little rocks at me to get my attention and laughing and giggling, and the oldest is pestering me about buying her a cellphone and about the promise I made a year ago about letting her pierce her ears for earrings.

In a calm moment, my wife and I get into a neighborly chat, well would be my wife, I'm a science/math teacher at the local community college and it's very hard for me to just sit down and chitchat and you tell us you are Christian.

My wife tells you she is a Christian also, but doesn't go to any denomination and hasn't been to church in several years, since marrying me, but that I am always peppering her with questions that she doesn't know the answers to. She says that one of the reasons she has stopped going to church is because she likes to spend Sundays with me since we don't get a lot of lone time together. I spend a lot of time helping students at the college and when I'm home, I have to spend a lot of time with the kids. We do have a date night every week, but that's just not enough.

She also says that she is also tired of seeing so much hypocrisy among the church members and the preacher is always asking for money, that she had decided to stop going. She says that her preacher, when she was little, told her she was saved as did her parents, so her salvation was guaranteed.

I tell you that I really don't go to any denomination, but I have read the Bible, the Koran, the Tao Te Ching, the Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, some of the writings of Marx, and some New Age books. I tell you that I don't know what the right way is or even if there is a right way?

I tell you that I tend toward Uniterianism, but Buddhism has some attraction to me also, but it's a little too esoteric for me. I tell you that I also have some problems with life after death, reincarnation, or any supernatural miracles.

I tell you my parents were Catholics before they died, but they died when I was very young and I have been to church only a couple of times since their funeral, but the people who adopted me were strong agnostics and never directed me to follow any particular path. I'm thinking about going back to the RCC, but haven't made any decision yet.

You realize that I am fairly knowledgeable of the Bible when it comes to knowing where what is, but you realize that I don't interpret them at all as you do. In fact, I have a very shallow understanding of them. I think the Bible is good literature and can help a person do a lot of good in this life, but I don't know anything about being saved and what that means.

I ask you what you believe and how I can find the happiness and joy you have in your life.

First, Truth can be known. To argue otherwise is to assert a statement, "truth does not exist", which accords the apologist the assertion that he who denies the truth uses a circular arguement, (affirming a truth - that being, that there is no truth) and their position is therefore meaningless. So, we can know the truth.

What is truth? It is that which corresponds to its object. Or stated otherwise, that which describes an actual state of affairs. All truth claims are absolute, narrow, and exclusive. Truth is not invented, it is discovered. Truth is transcultural, it is unchanging, and all truths are absolute truths.

The evidence for monotheism (God) derives from many sources. Scientifically we use inductive reasoning to learn about the nature of God. Einstein, in 1915, revealed the General Theory of Relativity, which asserted that the universe had a beginning. He hated the notion of a begining, but it was mathematically undeniable. This was confirmed by Edwin Hubble, Arthur Eddington (in the 1920's). Again science confirmed in the 1060's that there ws indeed a Big Bang which occurred and the remnant echo radiation was found by Penzias and Wilson. Then NASA sent up a satellite in 1989 (COBE) cosmic background explorer and confirmed the 'ripples' of energy created in the original creation. The leader of COBE, George Smoot, atheist, said the finding of COBE was like looking at the fingerprints of God. Stephen Hawking said this was the most important scientific finding of the past century, if not for all times. This was reconfirmed later by another NASA probe, WMAP (go to the site at NASA.gov and you can look at the photographs). So Science has confirmed that there was a beginning to the universe. It had not always existed, yet here we are. So you ask yourself, either everything came from Nothing, OR, everything came from Something. The Law of Causality says, "Everything which comes to be, has a cause." The Universe came to be. Therefore it had a cause. Moreover that cause was separate and distinct from the universe. That Cause was unimaginably powerful. That First Cause was personal, in that it had to make a decision to bring the universe (10 to the 70 power number of atoms) into existence from nothing. Unimaginably intelligent must describe the First Cause to order this universe. The question arises, "If there is no God, why is there anything at all?"

Atheism states there is no God. True atheist are naturalist materials, which state that all that exists is matter and energy. NOthing else. Materialism makes reason impossible. What does reason weigh? What is the molecular composition of reason or rational thought, or any abstract concept. To assert materialism is to deny reason and thus to affirm tht there is no reason to believe anything which happens in your mind....for it is just molecusles banging together creating electrical potentials. But you have sentience. You are aware. Chemicals don't reason...they react. But you are more than molecules. Your think, you reason, you engage in abstract thought. You are more than molecules. As C.S.Lewis said when asked if he had a soul, he responded, "No sir, I do not have a soul. I am a soul. I have a body." Materialism did not create a self conscious universe ( You are part of the universe and you have self awareness). It is because you were made in the image and likeness of God, who is author of reason (Isiah 1:18) that you are a sentient creature.

First Principles, in this case, the Law of Causality states one cannot create something it is not. Pantheism states that the universe is God,...that is mattter and energy....that is to assert that the universe is god. But the natural universe does not give rise to thought, reson, logic, rational thought, abstract concepts.

The teleological arguement states..Every design requires a designer....the universe is designed....Therefore the Universe had a designer. The universe exploded into existence out of nothing. The universe has more more than 100 fine-tuned anthropic principles proving desing. Life itself is remarkably desinged at teh cellular level and subcellular level, as well as the molecular level.

The Moral Law proves God. The Moral Law states...Every law has a Lawgiver....there is moral law....Therefore, there is a moral Lawgiver. We hold these truths self-evident, that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Without an objective standard of meaning and morality there are no absolute right or wrong. Then, everything is a matter of opinion. All people are imbued with a sense of fundamental right and wrong. There is no land where murder is virtue and gratitude is vice. An absolute moral obligation is something that is binding on all peoples, at all times, in all places. This implies a moral Lawgiver.We do not always follow our moral code and the standard by which we treat others, but we almost always expect others to treat us that way. Without moral absolutes there are not human rights...merely conventions. Without moral absolutes there is no justice or injustice...merely opinion. Hitler had a valid opinion as well as Mother Teresa. One cannot be superior to the other if there are no moral absolutes. Without Moral Law there is no way to know right from wrong. An atheist may state something is wrong, but he cannot justify that statement. So the Moral Law exists and therefore the Law was given by a Lawgiver.

Like Julie Andrews sang in the Sound of Music..Nothing from nothing is nothing. Everything which comes to be must have a Cause. That First Cauise created that 'singularity',...that moment where everything came to exist in this universe. In fact, time, space, matter, energy all came into existence according to science and the first Chapter of Genesis...'In the Beginning, GOD......

If God exists, then there is the possibility that miracles can occur. We discussed the greatest miracle, the creation of the universe. We spoke of the scientific evidence, the philosophical evidence, the teleolologyc evidence and the moral evidence, and now you see those evidences ratified by the miracle of creation. Also consider the miracle of life. We have seen from the Cosmological Arguement that God is self-existence (not contigent on this universe), timeless, nonspacial, immaterial (since he created time, space, matter, energy, he must be outside of time, space, and matter), unimaginably powerful to have brought the world into existence, personal to 'decide' to bring forth the universe from nothing, supremely intelligent to have designed the universe, life and all of those specified complexities, and morally pure (He is the very unchanging nature of moral law by which all actions are measured). So this is a theistic universe, thus excluding the panthistic vies of Hinduism, Buhdism, New Age theolgy, Secular Humanism (athism), Wiccan, )panthism) Mormonism (panthism), Taoism (panthism) Shintoism (panthism) and Confucianism (atheist).

So science confirms the miracle of creation and life. Other miracles, which would be affirmed in a court of law have been noted, i.e. the resurrection. The historicity of Jesus Christ and His resurrection was seen by more than 500 eyewitness and is really unassailable.

I have given you the evidence that you live in a theistic universe. Moreover you live in a Christian Theistic Universe, and have supported this with scienctific evidence, philosophical evidence, moral evidence, teleologic evidence and dnE Cosmological arguement.

I am simply touching the surface of evidences, but I hope this gets you started.

I appreciate those who talked to me like I was an agnostic and showed great patience for all my “shy” questions even though many of you knew I am LDS-Christian.

Now THAT would be a weird hybrid!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

And, continuing thru the years, the high ranking leaders of that Organization have done the same!

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

Only just lately have the MORMONs seem to WANT be called Christians now.

Can't find ANYTHING in their doctrine that has changed to warrent this attitude shift; however.

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