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Posted on 12/28/2009 11:26:45 AM PST by urroner
all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ..
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Ummm...isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black?
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What is your scientific evidence that the Universe (all time, space, matater, energy) originated from another universe. The Multiverse theory has no scientific evidence at all. The philosophical theory you propounded has no basis in fact or science. If you propound that the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle accounts for Boltzmann brain and we are all a derivitive of quantuum vacuum you need to take another look. Inflationary cosmology has yet another liability; Once permitted as a possible explanation for anything, it destroys practical and scientific reasoning about everything. Inflationary cosmology can explain the origin of all events, no matter how improbable, by reference to chance because of the infinite probablistic resources it purposts to generate. It follows that events we explain by reference to known causes baed upon ordinary experience are just as readily explained in inflationary cosmology as chance occurrences without any caussal antecedent. Accordcing to inflationary cosmology all events consistent with our laws of nature will eventually arise as the result of random fluctuations in the quantum vacuum constituted by the inflation field. This means that an exquisitly designed machine or an intricately crafted piece of poetry is just as likely to have benn produced by chance fluctuations in the quantum vacuum as by a human being. It also means that events such as earthquakes or regular pehenomena such as condensation are just as likely to have been the result of chance fluctuations in the quantum vacuum as to have been the result of an orderly progression of discernible material casues. In short, if inflationalry cosmology is true, anything can happen for no reason at all, beyond the supposed random fluctuations in the quantum vacuum of the inflation field. To make matters worse, inflationary cosmology actually implies that certain explainations that we regard as extremely improbable are actually more likely to be true than explanations we ordinarily accept. Consider the 'Boltzmann brain' phenomenon Under standard conditions for bubble-universe generation in inflationary cosmology, Boltzmann brains would be expected to arise as often, or more often, than normal occurrences in our universe. Indeed,, calculations based upon some inflationary cosmologies; models lead to a situation in which these free-floating Boltzmann brains infinitly outnumber normal brains in people like us. The epistemological implications of this possibility cannot be ignored in an honest assessment of inflationary cosmology. To assert our universe fluctuated into being one asserts that our universe, with its extraordinary improbable intital conditions which was orderly and law-like in its behavior (gravity, 1st and 2nd thermal laws, etc) and its uniformity, is disregard all of scientific evidences that the universe began. This means the many-world hypothesis generates absurdity, and that there is no reason (scientific) or otherwise to think we can rely on reason adn rational thought, but that those very qualities generated from a quantum field, and are therefore meaningless. It implies that our universe is not what it appears, and therefore anything generated from this quantum effect cannot be trusted according to the hypothesis of eternal inflation. It relies all scientific reasoning and explaination unreliable, therefore undermining any basis for it's own explanation of how life came to be. Nothing could be more self-refutin;g.
You girls are very funny.
Best line of this thread was:
See any “Ex-Christians for Christ?”.
That’s rusty not Resty. LOL
Rorschak?
OMG!!! I discovered this arrogant liar last year and asked several LDS about him. From what I understand he is very well known and yet none had heard of him.
He is teaching people to evade and deceive.
And, no I did not see the video you posted. All I had to see was his face and now that has set off my day.
He is so full of himself as he teaches these young people to travel the world and spend two years lying and evading.
Why doesn’t just pull a Jack Nicholson?
Best line of this thread was:
See any “Ex-Christians for Christ?”.
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Yeah. I’ve never met one.
LOL. I had him as a professor when I was at BYU. Arrogant SOB.
He travels around with a Christian named Greg Johnson discussing LDS vs. Christianity and from what I heard flat out lies to the audience.
Which wouldn’t surprise me, he used to encourage his students at BYU to “lie for the Lord” when discussing LDS beliefs.
Part of the reason I ended up not going on a mission was because of what he says in that video. I could not go out and intentionally deceive potential converts, which is what I was told to do in Missionary Preparation classes.
:O) I hope you had some answers......
I have given you the evidence that you live in a theistic universe. Moreover you live in a Christian Theistic Universe, and have supported this with scientific evidence, philosophical evidence, moral evidence, teleological evidence and the Cosmological argument.
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Wow! That’s a lot more work than I put into it- you make me realize that I may have skipped a step when I concluded that the only evidence of faith is faith itself.
Let me explain. I have gone over these arguments in philosophy classes and with actual atheists and agnostics, and they ALWAYS find some ‘reason,’ whether reasoned or not, to nit-pick their way into being satisfied with their own understanding and lack of faith. Heck, I did it myself when I was younger. Ultimately, then, the process of demanding proof is also an expression of faith: faith in one’s own understanding. This is why I just skipped the whole dance of going through the arguments you posted above.
But you’re right. If it takes going through the whole dog-and-pony show to save a soul, then it’s worth it. Bless you!
Question:
I was on a trip to Chile a few years and some Mormon Missionaries were on the trip and started to evangelize me. I told them I am a Christian and their message was more suited toward those that were not.
They persisted and while I admire tenacity I explained that we were probably on the same team and again I am not a prospect for conversion.
They then asked If I had about Joseph Smith to which I replied “I have heard of Joseph Smith and it doesn’t matter to me. Jesus Christ is the only one my salvation is with or possible through”.
Again they persisted about Joseph Smith and I said “Guys. You are nice kids doing good work but I don’t care about Joseph Smith”.
Luckily the plane began to pitch and yaw, as ascend/descend pretty violently. I suggested it might be a good idea to pray this thing stays in the air. They hastily agreed.
Why was it important to persist on educating me about Joseph Smith?
Mathematically, we have calculated that our universe was once part of a,IIRC, 11 spatial/1 temporal dimensional universe and there is evidence that there were other universes are greater dimensions.
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Sigh. Dog-and-pony-show time. Mathematically, we have speculated, not calculated. Any time mathematics is non-self-referential, it is imperfectly accurate, with the imperfection ‘rising as a function’ of the interpolated speculation. The problem with the acid of skepticism is that it melts down atheistic arguments just as easily as theistic ones.
Why was it important to persist on educating me about Joseph Smith?
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(putting on “mormon hat”)
“Because if you ONLY understood about Joseph Smith then OF COURSE you would see that he was a prophet of god in these latter days!”
(Taking off “momon hat”)
They also probably did not want the conversation to turn to real theology.
“A fool finds no pleasure in understanding, but delights in airing his own opinion” Proverbs 18:2
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LOL! I should have know there was a verse for this!
As they were being advised to greener pastures they should have no fear of Theology Lite conversation or an examination.
Now, however, I may be better prepared to witness to them.
Thanks for all your posts.
Yeah - only a (really desperate) mormon would defer to an agnostic for some “backup” moral authority.
I suggest all the “inmans” set their phasers on “ignore” for all future posts and comments originating with ‘urroner’
What little he had to say has now lost its limited entertainment value.
A.A.C.
Or in other words,
“On some worlds, men are men. On others, men are tall glasses of milk. Literally.” - Howard the Duck
It’s great when threads can actually be improved by obscure sci-fi references! Thank you, Texas Songwriter! (What songs have you written?)
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