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To: scripter

You didn’t prove it and neither did I.


221 posted on 02/07/2010 6:44:36 PM PST by Gapplega
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To: Gapplega
Well, you're right. You didn't prove anything. Still, I've provided you with a website whose members admit choosing to be gay. I posted that LUGs exist who admit choosing to be lesbians until graduation.

Robert Spitzer, who was key in getting homosexuality remove from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual has changed his mind. That is, he used to think homosexuals couldn't change but now after interviewing a couple hundred ex-gays, he believes change is possible. Spitzer had a lot to lose but he admits change is possbile

Another website, People Can Change has a lot of information on the subject and I very much encourage you to check it out.

If you don't accept what I've posted as evidence some choose their orientation then what would you accept?

222 posted on 02/07/2010 7:04:58 PM PST by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: Gapplega; scripter
"Family Ties" Shocker: Meredith Baxter says "I'm a lesbian mom"

Baxter, 62, said she started dating women several years ago, but before that, being gay "had never crossed my mind."

223 posted on 02/07/2010 7:11:47 PM PST by DJ MacWoW (Make yourselves sheep and the wolves will eat you. Ben Franklin)
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To: Gapplega; scripter
You didn’t prove it and neither did I.

The first thing to do is to define the question appropriately. Human sexual preferences exist on a continuum from exclusively hetero to exclusively homo, with infinite gradations in between. It's not a light switch that has an "on" and "off" position.

Secondly, I am over 60 and have been in the arts all my life. I have known literally hundreds of gays and lesbians and have known dozens closely as friends, and have heard details of the lives of many others from their friends.

Thirdly, I did my graduate thesis on the topic of the Constitutional law of family and marriage, in which I read extensively about all aspects of sexuality and mating culture/customs in the U.S. and Europe since the beginning of U.S. history. Not only have I read widely in the psychological literature that has found no single or even a compelling biological determinant, but I have heard and witnessed the life experiences (environment) of many gay individuals.

* Many experienced childhood sexual abuse or a rape in childhood, adolescence or young adulthood.

* Many were bullied or called "gay" for being artistic, or for having been assaulted by a bigger child of the same sex.

* Many grew up with emotional neglect by parents; or were adopted children with clinical attachment disorders, unable to feel truly loved by their adoptive parents.

* Others grew up with absolutely no moral code, and their present life does not demand one -- they do not intend, say, to run for public office (and these days, that's not even a barrier).

* Some have a profession in the arts or in leftist politics surrounded by gays and subjected to those influences, or even the coercion of predatory gays.

* Many had clear manifestations of a depressive or anxiety disorder that they tried to "self-medicate" with high-risk behaviors such as gay experimentation or drug use that would flood the brain with adrenaline, temporarily relieving the depression or anxiety, but ultimately contributing to a downward spiral. I do not believe in the liberal nostrum that gay teens commit suicide because of homophobia alone. I believe that suicidal teens are more likely to try using gay behaviors as a way to cope with depression than teens who are not clinically depressed.

* And a sizeable percentage of gays and lesbians that I personally knew in our community left gay behaviors and relationships behind in their twenties or thirties and took a heterosexual mate, had children and left their former friends in disbelief. One such man has been married now for 37 years to the same big-breasted woman and they are grandparents. Others are women who left it behind and are grandmothers now. Do they act out on the side? Perhaps; but apparently not enough to get them kicked out by their heterosexual mates or to cause gossip in our very close community.


There can be no "proof" in an open-and-shut way to a contiuum of complicated behaviors and conditions. But individuals can judge by their careful observations what may have influenced a friend whom they know well. This is my eyewitness account after a lifetime.

I have concluded and seen that many "gay" persons who are motivated can work through the psychological conditions that led to their initial attraction to the gay lifestyle and can move on and become stable in lasting heterosexual relationships. Others choose celibacy rather than acting out sexually outside of marriage, as do many widowed or divorced heterosexuals, especially women.

Walking away from sexual addiction and fetishism and choosing chastity instead is not just for gays.

226 posted on 02/08/2010 10:34:49 AM PST by Albion Wilde (Liberals love the poor so much they came up w/ a plan to create millions more of them. - Ann Coulter)
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