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To: BenKenobi

“And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”

Ok, that makes much more sense.

Now, here’s a question. Which letters? All this says is that Paul wrote some of the Epistles, but they are never named. So what we can infer from this is that some (or all) of Paul’s epistles were written prior to 2 Peter. What this does not tell us is which ones were written (presumably Corinthians and Galatians), and possibly others. It also tells us that at least two of the other ‘scriptures’ presumably the Epistles were written by people other than Peter and Paul, and were written prior to 2 Peter.

It would make sense that he would name the Gospels, and their authors if they were written at the time of 2 Peter, but they came somewhat later.


78 posted on 02/22/2010 4:28:55 PM PST by BenKenobi (Any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind ;)
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To: BenKenobi

“The problem is that there is a difference between apostolic consecration and apostolic succession of doctrine.”

There’s no difference between the two. The Apostolic succession, passed on from bishop to bishop mirrors the doctrine. There must be an unbroken chain, all the way back to Peter and the Apostles in order for confirmation to carry with it the authority in which Christ vested in the Apostles.

“The history of the church is replete with those that have received apostolic consecration but have been clearly heretical.”

Some, yes, but that does not detract from the fact that there have always been priests and bishops who have been faithful to the teachings from the very beginning. The reason we hear more about the heretics is because they were written about, as a greater concern to the unity of the church and their teachings.

“The axiom is that every church father is a heretic.”

Who are you quoting here? Where did you get this from?

“Councils have not only erred, but they are often been contradictory.”

Which councils? You’ll have to go in more detail here. What exactly did they promulgate which was contradictory?


81 posted on 02/22/2010 4:41:27 PM PST by BenKenobi (Any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind ;)
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