The Duke meeting the Dauphin
Posted on 02/24/2010 11:17:16 AM PST by Pyro7480
III. Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom
John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.
Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.
John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.
Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.
1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.
1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
I’m certainly not infallible. And certainly there’s nothing to suggest that Bathsheeba didn’t have a right to make a request. I was arguing that the passage didn’t support the view that it was meant to foreshadow Mary interceding for us in Heaven as Queen. If one meant to foreshadow such a thing, why would you choose to do so with a story where the intercessor hears and passes on an evil request — certainly, Mary the Queen of Heaven wouldn’t be expected to ask God for evil on our behalf.
I’m not a big fan of basing doctrine on foreshadowing, although I don’t deny that old testament scripture does contain foreshadowing in some circumstances, clearly it does as Jesus pointed out.
Nor do I deny the use of old testament stories as allegories for profound biblical truths which might otherwise not been found clearly. Again, we have examples from Jesus of that.
But examples within scripture come from people who, without any other biblical reference, would still have been understood to be speaking on God’s behalf — so we aren’t using the old testament allegories to believe their message, their message stands on it’s own.
I have appreciated our conversation.
And I certainly appreciate how you two conducted your conversation! :-)
The Duke meeting the Dauphin
IMOPIOS,
1) The passage illustrates the Queen Mother's position as an intercessor. Solomon doesn't get mad when she asks to ask a favor ... he gets mad when the favor asked is an evil one.
2) that foreshadowing fits very neatly with Adam's disobedience foreshadowing Christ's obedience to the Father. And when Mary does act as an intercessor (at Cana), her request is good, and Jesus grants it in a big way.
Even if folks don't come to agreement, civil discussion can be both edifying and spiritually fulfilling.
The Cana reference is problematic for the opposite reason. The request is good, and Jesus does grant it, but he certainly acts like her even asking the question is less than accceptable, like he is tolerating her request rather than graciously hearing and granting her request.
I'd also note that, while Solomon's kingship was obvious, Jesus' was not. Yet. It is, now.
So why do you bow and kneel before statues of Mary and sing praises to her name?
So how can one objectively tell the difference between the adoration of Mary and the veneration of Mary? From my point of view they look exactly alike.
The Angel Gabriel and St. Elizabeth did as much: “And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women....And she [Elizabeth] cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.”
I will pray for you.
“So how can one objectively tell the difference between the adoration of Mary and the veneration of Mary? From my point of view they look exactly alike.”
One way to tell the difference could be to ask the people who are doing these things what they are doing. As in asking something like: “Excuse me, but are you worshipping Mary?”
Freegards
Can he find a six day Creation anywhere, or is the Bible "too ambiguous?"
Best advice ever given to any human person by another human person:
“Do whatever He tells you.”
-Mary of Nazareth
Enjoyed your last posts about Mary. Beautiful - Thanks. :)
If I say Mary is Blessed, I suppose you could say I'm venerating her, but when I kneel before her statue and pray to her, I would have to say that I am worshiping her.
I won't do that. I kneel before God and none else.
Did Gabriel and Elizabeth kneel down at Mary's feet and "venerate" her? Or did they just call her blessed (a term applied to everyone who follows Christ)?
DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE PROTESTANT THAT WAS SHIPWRECKED ON A DESERT ISLAND FOR MANY YEARS. HE WAS FINALLY PICKED UP BY A SHIP. AND HE IS ON THE DECK WITH THE CAPTAIN. THE CAPTAIN LOOKS OUT AT THE ISLAND AND SEES 3 STRUCTURES AND ASKS WHY. THE PROTESTANT SAYS THE 1ST ONE IS MY HOME. THE 2ND IS MY CHURCH AND THE 3RD IS THE CHURCH I USE TO GO TOO. ALWAYS GOING TO AND FRO NEVER COMING TO A FULL UNDERSTANDING OF THE TRUTH THAT THE CHURCH CAME 1ST THEN THE COMPLETE BIBLE IN THE CHURCH COUNCIL OF NICEA 300AD’S TO WEED OUT THE 4 DOZEN PHONY “GOSPELS”.
Thanks for posting this — I’d rather discuss with Protestants what we actually DO believe, rather than strawman arguments about what we supposedly believe but are actually things they have been led to think we believe
Why let the 8th Commandment get in the way of a good smear?
Venerate, yes. Love filially, yes. Offer intercessory prayers to, yes. Worship, no.
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