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To: Tramonto; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; RnMomof7
Free will ≠ Chance.

In this case sure it does, because God does not control the outcome, He only sets the conditions. Imagine that you set the conditions of rolling a fair pair of dice 100 times. Wouldn't the results be random because you did not control the results? How is this different from God setting the conditions for salvation (free will accept or reject) and then purposely not controlling the results, but simply writing down the results and calling it "predestination", as synergists do?

Remember, we are talking about the actual names of the saved from God's POV. From your synergist POV you can say it is not random because you are in control and you choose. However, from God's POV it WOULD be random since He would not be in control, so as not to offend your sovereignty. The synergist view leads to random results as far as God is concerned, and demonstrates a God who couldn't care less which of His creations actually spends eternity with Him in Heaven.

1,233 posted on 03/13/2010 3:02:14 PM PST by Forest Keeper ((It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.))
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To: Forest Keeper

Congratulations on being so special that God chose you. What criteria did He use?

I could never be a Calvinist because that would mean I was accusing God of being the author and cause of all evil and sin. I will not accuse God of sinning through me when I know that I was given free will and am responsible for my own actions. If Calvinism is true, then God is evil. Thankfully, God is good and true and Calvinism is just another lie.


1,238 posted on 03/13/2010 4:59:06 PM PST by Tramonto (Live Free or Die)
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To: Forest Keeper
Imagine that you set the conditions of rolling a fair pair of dice 100 times. Wouldn't the results be random because you did not control the results? How is this different from God setting the conditions for salvation (free will accept or reject) and then purposely not controlling the results, but simply writing down the results and calling it "predestination", as synergists do?

Remember, we are talking about the actual names of the saved from God's POV. From your synergist POV you can say it is not random because you are in control and you choose. However, from God's POV it WOULD be random since He would not be in control, so as not to offend your sovereignty. The synergist view leads to random results as far as God is concerned, and demonstrates a God who couldn't care less which of His creations actually spends eternity with Him in Heaven.

What a great illustration. I never thought of it that way before.

"The synergist view leads to random results as far as God is concerned."

That is exactly right.

1,248 posted on 03/13/2010 7:58:39 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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