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To: MarkBsnr; Nevadan
I have also been instructed by the Reformed that satan is a tool of the Reformed God who uses him for His pleasure and to do His will. Indeed, it appears that satan can do no other than what the Reformed God has predestined for him.

That is what the Bible says.. Have you read Job?

In Job, Chapter 2; God says, "Have you considered My servant Job? And he says, Let me at him again." And so in verse 6 chapter 2 the Lord said to Satan, "Behold he's in your hand, this time you can hit him but you can't kill him....you can't kill him. Satan went right out of the presence of the Lord and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to his crown."

, Satan stands at the throne of God accusing the brethren, as he did with Job here. But God must give permission to Satan before he can act.

Not only that in Job we see God not only permit the testing of Job, God Himself suggests Job

Consider the role of God in the temptation of Christ.

Mat 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
That temptation was foreordained, Satan acted only with the permission of God

Consider this well known verse

1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

He may not just devour anyone. God uses Satan for his purposes.

Is God God of all His creation or only God over some of His creation? Are we dualists believing that Satan is an equal warrior to God ?

How then can you be sure that in the end Satan will not win? __________________

21 posted on 02/28/2010 10:26:27 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
Is God God of all His creation or only God over some of His creation? Are we dualists believing that Satan is an equal warrior to God ? How then can you be sure that in the end Satan will not win?

Amen! Those are the questions that lead men from Arminianism to Calvinism, from the world and the ego to His word alone, by His grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone, for His glory alone.

33 posted on 02/28/2010 12:46:02 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: RnMomof7
Indeed, it appears that satan can do no other than what the Reformed God has predestined for him.

That is what the Bible says.

You give three evidences of that statement. Let us look at them in order.

Job is tortured by satan with God's permission. Or was he? Let us turn to:

Job 1: 8 And the LORD said to Satan, "Have you noticed my servant Job, and that there is no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and avoiding evil?" 9 But Satan answered the LORD and said, "Is it for nothing that Job is God-fearing? 10 Have you not surrounded him and his family and all that he has with your protection? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his livestock are spread over the land. 11 But now put forth your hand and touch anything that he has, and surely he will blaspheme you to your face." 12 And the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand upon his person." So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

God does not specifically instruct satan. He only removes Job's special protection that obviously satan has tested previously - otherwise how would satan know? God is teaching satan a lesson here, not vice versa. The same as God may teach us lessons. Remember that satan was Lucifer - the brightest angel and the most beautiful of God's creations who rebelled. Rebelled, not predestined to rebel.

Job 42: 2 And it came to pass after the LORD had spoken these words to Job, that the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, "I am angry with you and with your two friends; for you have not spoken rightly concerning me, as has my servant Job. 8 3 Now, therefore, take seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up a holocaust for yourselves; and let my servant Job pray for you; for his prayer I will accept, not to punish you severely. For you have not spoken rightly concerning me, as has my servant Job." 9 Then Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, went and did as the LORD had commanded them. And the LORD accepted the intercession of Job.

If anything, the story of Job teaches that it is up to the individual. This is more evidence for free will in this story than there is for predestination in all of the Institutes.

Matthew 4: 1 1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2 He fasted for forty days and forty nights, 2 and afterwards he was hungry. 3 The tempter approached and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command that these stones become loaves of bread." 4 3 He said in reply, "It is written: 'One does not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.'" 5 4 Then the devil took him to the holy city, and made him stand on the parapet of the temple, 6 and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written: 'He will command his angels concerning you and 'with their hands they will support you, lest you dash your foot against a stone.'" 7 Jesus answered him, "Again it is written, 'You shall not put the Lord, your God, to the test.'" 8 Then the devil took him up to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence, 9 and he said to him, "All these I shall give to you, if you will prostrate yourself and worship me." 5 10 At this, Jesus said to him, "Get away, Satan! It is written: 'The Lord, your God, shall you worship and him alone shall you serve.'" 11 Then the devil left him and, behold, angels came and ministered to him.

There is no predestination here, either explicit or implicit. After 40 days of fasting, you might be tempted as well.

1 Peter 5: 5 4 Likewise, you younger members, 5 be subject to the presbyters. And all of you, clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for: "God opposes the proud but bestows favor on the humble." 6 So humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time. 7 Cast all your worries upon him because he cares for you. 8 Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for (someone) to devour. 9 Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings. 10 The God of all grace who called you to his eternal glory through Christ (Jesus) will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you after you have suffered a little. 11 To him be dominion forever. Amen.

Amen. This passage is not about permissions of satan. It is about the lion of satan trying to find Christian prey that is weak and easily turned away from the faith. Is God God of all His creation or only God over some of His creation? Are we dualists believing that Satan is an equal warrior to God ?

Christians believe that God is God of all Creation. Christians also do not believe that satan is equal to God. We believe that satan rebelled and took 1/3 of all the angels with him.

How then can you be sure that in the end Satan will not win?

Because Jesus tells us of our salvation.

111 posted on 02/28/2010 7:56:05 PM PST by MarkBsnr ( I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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