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To: the_conscience
"Stop with the simplistic antinomies! It's a disgrace to the Scriptural witness. It shows a juvenile understanding of the story of redemption. "

Then refute it with a single, clear-cut verse of scripture saying we are born again by a secret act of God to belief. I may be juvenile, but scripture doesn't lie about the plan of salvation. Sola Scriptura - if it is critical, it is also plain!

Calvin based his theory of salvation on the idea we are "dead" in our sin, so that we must be first born again to belief. In doing so, he skipped all the scriptures talking about us as slaves of sin, or servants of sin, or sick & needing healing. THAT was juvenile, but that happens when someone who is 26 writes a Systematic Theology text.

11And he said, "There was a man who had two sons. 12And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the share of property that is coming to me.' And he divided his property between them. 13Not many days later, the younger son gathered all he had and took a journey into a far country, and there he squandered his property in reckless living. 14And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need. 15So he went and hired himself out to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to feed pigs. 16And he was longing to be fed with the pods that the pigs ate, and no one gave him anything.

17"But when he came to himself, he said, 'How many of my father’s hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants."' 20And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.' 22But the father said to his servants, 'Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. 23And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. 24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to celebrate.

60 posted on 02/28/2010 2:38:36 PM PST by Mr Rogers (I loathe the ground he slithers on!)
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To: Mr Rogers; Dr. Eckleburg
but scripture doesn't lie about the plan of salvation. Sola Scriptura - if it is critical, it is also plain!

Yes, Scripture is plain about how one is reconciled to God but not all of Scripture is plain or equal in understanding. If one wants to grow in the knowledge of God he must go beyond simplistic readings of individual verses and try to fit all the Scriptural data together. Peter talked about how Paul wrote in complex structures and the Eunich needed help interpreting the OT with the NT. If you want to stay on milk that's your choice.

Calvin based his theory of salvation on the idea we are "dead" in our sin, so that we must be first born again to belief. In doing so, he skipped all the scriptures talking about us as slaves of sin, or servants of sin, or sick & needing healing.

Ahhhh...I don't think he skipped those Scriptures but they actually work in agreement with the "dead in sins" context. If you have some actual arguments against Calvin besides the paltry, "he wrote his systematics at 26", which doesn't take into effect that he revised his work throughout his life, then quote some of his work that you disagree with.

64 posted on 02/28/2010 2:50:39 PM PST by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Mr Rogers; the_conscience
Calvin based his theory of salvation on the idea we are "dead" in our sin,

lol. And the Arminian spends his life in a futile attempt to prove Scripture and Calvin wrong.

The Arminian thinks men are merely ill, rather than dead in sin unless and until God regenerates them to know the things of God.

Which, of course, devolves the meaning of grace into simply a booster seat and not the power and intent and purpose and glory of the Triune God.

Lazarus was dead And he was brought back to life by the will and purpose and ability of Christ alone.

90 posted on 02/28/2010 4:02:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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