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To: CondoleezzaProtege
In 1917 no less than 70,000 people in Spain saw the Sun "dance" (change colors, shoot flames, swirl wildly, even fall towards earth and radiate increased heat)...except the cameras recorded nothing of the sort.

Here is a picture of the mass of people "witnessing" the "dancing" and "falling" Sun.

What people "see" and what really happened is often two different things. The conviction that something happened seems to grow with the crowds, and is often referred to as "mass hysteria."

This 'miracle' of the Sun was actually predicted by the "appearance" of Mary (the Mother of Jesus) to three little children in Portugal in a town called Fatima. And Mary "told" one of them, Lucia, that the Sun would do something (I guess as a sign of "authentication").

Of course, when interviewed many people, it turns out, witnessed something very different from those next to them...and some even said they saw nothing at all! All photographs of the Sun on that day show none of the "miraculous" signs predicted and duly "witnessed" not by 500 like those in Jerusalem, but 70,000, who only thought they saw something.

Using eyewitness accounts is obviously unreliable.

The author also uses a banal argument about the apostles for basically dying for their faith as a "proof" that they "saw" the risen Christ. In Mat 28:17 it says that at the end of his 40 days mingling with the disciples some still doubted Jesus.

But just because some people are ready to lay down their lives form someone is no proof that that someone is what they believe he is! Look at what Jim Jones did! He managed to convince a whole bunch of people that dying for their faith was a good thing! Look at all his followers who died for Jim Jones.

being martyred for something you believe in is no proof that what you believe in is true or real.

Sorry. Your author may be a good guy, but his arguments are not.

7 posted on 03/01/2010 2:00:19 AM PST by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
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To: kosta50
Of course, when interviewed many people, it turns out, witnessed something very different from those next to them...and some even said they saw nothing at all!

This is exactly the point. When people hallucinate or fabricate they don't see or report the same thing. All of the apostles saw the same thing. So that rules out hallucination or imagination.

But just because some people are ready to lay down their lives form someone is no proof that that someone is what they believe he is! Look at what Jim Jones did!

The fact that the apostles laid down their lives is meant to refute the charge that they were liars. A liar hopes to profit from their misdeed. Clearly, martyrdom isn't profitable to a liar. Martyrdom shows their sincerity and lack of profit motive.

So given that the apostles' testimony is consistent we know it not to be a hallucination. Given the apostles' lives and works, we know them to be sincere, i.e., they're not lying.

That leaves us with the conclusion that they saw what they saw and it was so moving that they dedicated their lives to retelling what they saw even unto death. This is good reason to believe the authenticity of their testimony that Jesus Christ rose from the dead.

Thanks for making that reply because it clearly illustrates the misunderstandings that many people have about this line of reasoning in the many evidences for the truth of Christ's resurrection.

I hope that you and others can learn from that.

God bless you.
21 posted on 03/02/2010 2:32:09 PM PST by freep_climate_skeptic
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