Writings of Joseph Smith-Mormon- (OPEN)

lightplanet.com ^ | Dean C. Jessee

[greyfoxx39]

You are correct...it IS funny!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

But, the LDS church wants mormoms!;-)

[Tennessee Nana]

If one scoffs at the missionary’s explanation of the Book of Mormon, he is in so many words claiming it to be false:
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“many words” ???

Lets play “Scoff at the book of mormon”

Nana can scoff in just ONE word...

“RUBBISH”

[svcw]

Isn't that just the strangest link ever.
I had never heard of the "challenge" before. Udderly or utterly folly. But they are correct I know more about Tibet than Joe knew about America and that ain't much.

[Godzilla]

If he had, he might have known that the demon moron(i) is accursed...

It probably never entered his mind. His family had been ensconced in occultic folk magic all his life and he ran around treasure seeking with a peep stone.

[L,TOWM]

you must check every statement with the scriptures or you will be proven a fraud.

Looks like Joey failed his own test...

[Tennessee Nana]

Tibet: cold, snow, highest mountain, Mt Everest 29,000 feet, Shangrila, Dalai Lama, Buddists, monasteries...movie 7 Years in Tibet 1950s remake 2008 or so....

Joey Smith never mentioned it but it was there in 1830...

Ya’d think a profit would know those things wouldntcha ???

[reaganaut]

I saw the funniest answer video to that ‘challege’ on Heart of the Matter. I wish I could find it.

[Elsie]

...disruptive conditions that forced the migration of the Latter-day Saints across two-thirds of the American continent.

Poor babies.

Why did the ones who did NOT flee manage to do SO well while faced with MURDEROUS mobs, bent on their DISTRUCTION!!!!

[Elsie]

 

 

Joseph Smith was a famous Preacher in the Eastern USA. His teaching empire grew to include acquisition of valuable printing assets and intimate dealings with the Missouri courts.

 

 He devoted several years of his early life to exploratory service, finally taking leave to assume his dealings with various Spiritual Beings.

 

As an adjunct to his exploratory work, Mummies and papyrus are purchased from Michael Chandler.  On July 19, 1835 at age 29; Joseph began translating the papyrus. It will be known as the Book of Abraham, generating quite a lot of interest by leading archeological experts.

 

 In 1844, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the authorities in Carthage, Hancock County, Illinois. That same month, Smith passed away during an important civic function held in his honor when the excitable group who had come to visit him pressed too many into the room he was in and his death resulted.

 

 

 

[Elsie]

Udderly or utterly folly.

HEY!!

[Elsie]

 

The 'great writer' wrote THESE:

 

 

 

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

 

 No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim... only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

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Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

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*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

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Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

     .
 

     .
 

      .

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Elsie]

 

 

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"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."

---Joseph Knight's journal.

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"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.

(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),

"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

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"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,

as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,

and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

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In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."

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"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"

reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881

in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

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In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:

 

 "When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,

Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12

June 15, 1879,  pp. 190-91.)

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Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:

 

"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"

("A New Witness for Christ in America,"

Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)

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"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."

---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.

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[Elsie]

Are you willing to defend MORMONism over here?

[greyfoxx39]

Are you willing to defend MORMONism over here?

Do you expect the word to go out from Salt Lake to the 55000+ missionaries that they are to encourage questions that must be defended against?

Up until a couple of years ago, the FR mormons were able to proselytize unhindered by very much debate. Some want to go back to those "good old days", so they use closed threads or stay off the forum entirely.

[ejonesie22]

L. Ron Hubbard: "If you want to make a lot of money, create a religion"

Joseph Smith to L. Ron: "Rookie..."

[Elsie]

She’s too busy whining on another thread that folks are ALLOWED (shudder!) speak their minds and actually QUOTE LDS history!

[Elsie]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2461455/posts?q=1&;page=1#1

[greyfoxx39]

[restornu]

There is nothing to defend Elsie Jesus Christ is ahead of His Church The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints!

I am sure he appreciates you all mentioning His name once in awhile but he is not the head of any of your churches!:)